Roman Catholic Atrocities

it has recently occurred to me that we still live in a world filled with predjudice. i cannot understand why we still are so ****** about religion. im not saying i know everything, but i do know a little about what kind of person god wants us all to be. disliking someone because of their religion...or damming someone because they practice different things than they...i have come across many situations in this new year about someone not liking me or refusing to associate with me because i am catholic. i actually thought the only thing i had to worry about would be that i would not be accepted because of my skin color. now, entering the huge world, and not being sheltered by my mother, see how it really is. i believe that god wants us to love everyone no matter what. sure we all make mistakes(about the comment of preists doing wrong with chidren..baptist ministers do wrong too but noone hears about it, for instance the five churches i have visited in my life i have heard of the minister having an affair with some of the parishoners while still married, and its not just baptists either..)but god forgives and loves us all for who we are. i just think the hatred should stop and we all should get over our stubborn ways that have been grilled into us from past generations.

 

Phewwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!

The moment I saw the title of this thread I knew it was going to be a rat-infested dunghole of a sewer.

I was going to leave that comment and split, but then I saw this gem:

My stance on the RCC is only strengthened by this kind of nonsense. You don't want to adress the problems, you want to belittle the folks who do. Well go ahead, I'm not hard to make fun of. You won't be the first or last.

We belittle you because you are NOT addressing the problems by quoting bigots, Catholicphobes, liars, and general anti-catholic morons who wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them upside the head!!

Case in point: the claim of killing 50 million in the Inquisition when there probably weren't that many people alive in the world, let alone all of Europe!!

Or the continual harping about "priestly pedophila", which represents about 1.5% of all ordained Catholic clergy, while ignore the whopping 10% of Protestant MARRIED CLERGY who sexually act out in sinful ways.

Yeah, you keep throwing around FALSE STATISTICS like this and then expect "dialog"?

GET REAL!!!

 

Thank you Pauline for the answers.

She doen't see denominations. She sees a big hoax by religous zealots who tell people how to live good moral christian lives, then do whatever they want outside the pulpit.

As for the rest of you, if you see something to back up your claims, please post it so I can read it.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:


As for the rest of you, if you see something to back up your claims, please post it so I can read it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a joke right?

Go back through this thread, plenty of evidence has been offered to you.

TP gave a link on 01-21-02 @ 2:05

Pauline gave references to several authors works. 01-21-02 @ 8:22

Pauline offered a link on 01-21-02 @ 8:38

WPutnam backquoted a link on 01-21-02 @ 9:32

WPutnam gave another link on 01-21-02 @ 9:39

Statements such as that, this late in the thread, really do not improve your credibility.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
I'm already tired of this game t2u. If you want to talk to me, then talk to me.

My stance on the RCC is only strengthened by this kind of nonsense. You don't want to adress the problems, you want to belittle the folks who do. Well go ahead, I'm not hard to make fun of. You won't be the first or last.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am talking to you. What I am not willing to do is uncritically accept everything that you say simply because you say it.

And as it has been pointed out several times, the evidence suggests that sexual sin is much more prevelant among non-Catholic ministers. You have completely ignored that and instead continue to demand that Catholics have to do something.

Perhaps you could start by reading what others have written to you.

 

Mr. Curtis,
It must have been a shock to encounter her rage in that way. But her logic doesn't hold up. Sure, there are a few people living in gross sin in any church body. And all of us struggle to live charitably in the midst of our personal disagreements and all. But overall Christians are really living much better moral lives than the average persons in the rest of society, and are dismayed at their own failures to do even better.

It reminds me of the man who said he wouldn't go to church because of all the hypocrites in the churches. At least the people in the churches are admitting their need of God's grace. And they're giving of their time, money, strength, etc. We aren't perfect, but we do keep improving. And, many a non-Christian, when he got into dire need financially or spiritually or psycholgically has been very grateful for the support and help he received from Christians. So most Christians are not hypocrites. And anyone who honestly looks at the situation will recognize that fact.

I would suggest that you not let the encounter be a pressure on you. We Christians do need to apologize for our actual sins. We do not need to apologize for someone else's accusations of our sins.
Nor, do we need to apologize for striving, by God's grace, to be more like Christ.

And we can point that out to people who are trying to make scapegoats of us. That woman needs to get the statistics right on how many bad apples there are in this barrel in proportion to how many good apples there are in the same barrel.

Pauline

 

Sorry, I double posted.


[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: Pauline ]

 

Much of the hype in the New England area concerning the "problems of sin", which have taken over in the area will eventually go away. It only takes a few stories for the hype to reach a crazy crescendo. It just takes one bad incident, one hungry paper (Boston Globe), and a very willing audience. The same was common in 1800 england where there was a bad incident in the mix of 100's of cases of pure slander, hungry media of anti-catholic england-many times going to the press with slander-, and a very willing audience (consider the best seller Maria Monk).

There is nothing new in history, it always repeats itself, no matter how "modern" and "new" one may think the experience is. The Catholic Church has survived such mockery and consensus of public hatred-slander before, and in year 2500, Catholicism will still be around.

peace,CLAV

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Christopher Clavius:
Much of the hype in the New England area concerning the "problems of sin", which have taken over in the area will eventually go away. It only takes a few stories for the hype to reach a crazy crescendo. It just takes one bad incident, one hungry paper (Boston Globe), and a very willing audience. The same was common in 1800 england where there was a bad incident in the mix of 100's of cases of pure slander, hungry media of anti-catholic england-many times going to the press with slander-, and a very willing audience (consider the best seller Maria Monk).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, and all the refutation in the world will not nullify the slander, once it is perpetuated. And Maria Monk is a good example of a lie that will not die.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>There is nothing new in history, it always repeats itself, no matter how "modern" and "new" one may think the experience is. The Catholic Church has survived such mockery and consensus of public hatred-slander before, and in year 2500, Catholicism will still be around.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed the Church will survive, noting that one Michael Wrenn, the author of this thread, has fallen strangely silent.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


Regina Angelorum, ora pro nobis!

[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: WPutnam ]

 

Thanx Pauline. This issue gets uglier, just read any Massachusetts newspaper right now, there are a lot of mad people up here.


And folks....I didn't start this thread. You may not like me, or the way I say things, but this thing is happening, and I don't like it any more than any of you. I don't sit around and wait for things to write to drag your faith thru the mud, I take absolutely no pleasure in seeing it happen. Remember, I was Catholic born, baptized, & raised. ( I never went after I was about 12 or 13, I think ) This thing hurts all of us. Even Bishop Cardinal Law is saying he knew about this priests problems with pedophilia, & didn't tell anyone. He is saying his resignation won't heal the church, and I tend to agree with him there. Irreversable damage has been done. And it will affect anyone who is trying to witness up here.

Pauline, I thank God for your answers. He obviously is working thru you.

 

And it will affect anyone who is trying to witness up here.

Mr. Curtis --

You are correct in that assessment, but if it wasn't "pedophile priests" it would be something else. You see, when you don't really want to obey God, ANYTHING becomes a good excuse for not going to church, right? I'm sure that long before this cropped up, you heard a plethora of reasons from people as to why they don't go to church ("I did't like the preacher, the service was too long, the minister's wife wore the wrong color to church, Sunday's the only day I have to myself, I worship God out on the lake fishing....yada, yada, yada")

Brother Ed

 

I've heard em all, I've said em all.

Thank you for the response, & keep praying for this situation. I know you Catholics must feel pain over this issue, also.

 

Mr. Curtis,
Of course, Catholics feel pain over the gross sins of a priest. It is such a betrayal of our Faith which calls us each to be other Christs in the world. We all feel pain over the sins of Christians, including our own.

I have thought so often of how I suffer from one of my sins. How anxious I am to get to the Sacrament of Reconciliation. And Christ bore all the sins of all of us, plus of every human being over all time. It grieves one to even think of what He suffered due to our sins. And we can't begin to realize it fully.

I also felt pain for the members of the Assembly of God churches when that TV evangelist of their denomination was caught in gross sin. My husband and I served as interim pastors in one of their mission churches. And I know that the incident with that evangelist caused the people great pain and betrayal.

We know the call on the lives of our leaders to be Christlike and models to the rest of us. For Catholics, that is the meaning in our calling a priest "Father" and he should be living up to that. Thank God that so many do. For me, that's the tragedy of all the media attention on those few priests who grossly sin. All too often the good priests are tainted by the media brush instead of getting credit for all the good they do.

Pauline

 

Pauline, the reason the media focus so much on the so-called "bad priests" is that 99% of media types are liberal God-haters who despize ANYTHING to do with "organized religion" (ptoooie!) and are more than gleefully happy to trash it whenever they get a chance. The bigger the sin, the more they enjoy it.

Brother Ed

 

Brother Ed,
Today the coming of another expose was announced on television. And I thought how our society is geared to exposes. It's in the papers, magazines, television. Like it's exciting to know the dirt on another person.

Makes one wonder if ordinary life is so boring and unsatisfactory for the average American, that he has to have a "fix" and get his adrenaline rush from reading about someone else's downfall.

I think that is an indication that many people today do not genuinely enjoy their lives. Because when we're content with our own lives, we don't worry about the dirt in another person's.

Pauline

 

It looks like the nastiness on this thread is over. Thank you for the supportive responses. We will see what happens.

 

Mr. Curtis,
I have one more thing I'd like to add. If we Christians will live Christlike lives in this world, God will bear fruit through us. He will drive back evil.

The laxity among Christians, their living by the world's standards instead of by Christ's teaching and example does lay the ground work for the very problems we have been discussing.

Therefore, each of us does have a responsibility in this. We can raise the level of example among Christians by our own lifestyles. How deep is one's relationship with Christ? How faithful is one to Him and His will? Is our witness one of love for all other Christians despite our doctrinal differences?

Too many Christians are basing their moral lives on the subjective "I feel" rather than on the objective "Jesus Christ said and did". When that changes we Christians will have more influence over our society. And I think the responsibility is double for the Catholics because we have so much more helps of grace in the sacraments.

In Christ,
Pauline

 

Sorry. I ran into flood control and some how double posted AGAIN.

Pauline


[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Pauline ]