A man who can't tell the difference between ante- and anti- probably wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the behind. "Never trust a man who doesn't know his Greek prefixes."
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Roman Catholic...Christian or Cult?
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
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Dr. Walter
New Member
That is a giant unwarranted assumption that totally ignores every use of divine signs not merely under the Old Covenant beginning with Moses but with the first institution of sacrifices in Genesis beginning with the first family (Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel). The sacrifice offered by Abel is no different than the sacrifice offered by the Levites - all were types that foreshadowed Christ. None could ever LITERALLY remit sins, even though the picture was accompanied with the language of redemption "for his sins". The reality under the Old Covenant for remission of sin as with Abel the first prophet was in justification by faith in Christ (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2) and STILL IS as baptism and the Lord's Supper are simply new TYPES that accompany the language of redemption as did the old TYPES. The only difference is the old TYPES looked forward to Christ's coming whereas the new TYPES look back to the cross.
To say that these new types actually CONVEY remission of sins is to replace the gospel of Christ as PREACHED by all the prophets (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; Acts 26:22-23) with a new sacramentalism when Paul claims that His gospel is the same gospel preached by all the prophets (Acts 26:22-23; I Cor. 15:3-4 "according to the scriptures").
There is no Biblical foundation for making New Testament rites any more sacramental than Old Testament rites as both use the same language of redemption but it is clear that such language was never intended for the type to be the means to literally convey remission of sins in the Old Testament (Heb. 10:4) and therefore there is no reason to interpret the New Testament types convey it any more than the Old. What conveys remission of sins is the faith in the SAME GOSPEL preached then as preached now (Acts 10:43; 26:22-23; Heb. 4:2)
Heb. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
What you are suggesting is a "new" and thus "another gospel" than what was preached to them and that is "accursed" by Paul.
Then what on earth is the point of the New Covenant???
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
All I have to say to that is
Which really doesn't make sense in the context but its cool.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Thinkingstuff, is this gaelic?
Not up on my Gallic
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
As a matter of fact it is.
Or is it French? Kai su teknon
Dr. Walter
New Member
The Old Covenant was for LOST PEOPLE and designed for LOST PEOPLE to teach them about sin and salvation through PICTURES and LAW. Thus a "school master" to lead them to Christ.
The New Covenant has been applied since Genesis (Rom. 3:24-26) and is the gospel that was always preached (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2). That is why ABRAHAM can be used for OUR EXAMPLE or ROLE MODEL as the "father of all who believe" (Gal. 3:6-8; Rom. 4:11-12) as the blood of the everlasting covenant was just as applicable from the Garden of Eden to the last chapter in Revelation.
What occurs in the Gospels is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies and in the Old Testament gospel with its forward look of faith to the coming Christ. Also, what is established in the New Testament is the New Covenant ADMINISTRATION where the former house of God and its ordinances are replaced by the new house of God and its ministry and ordinances.
Heb. 9:1 ¶ Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
The kingdom was taken from the Jews (Mt. 21:43) with the "keys of the kingdom" and given to the church as the new house of God (Mt. 18:17-18). The New house of God - "the church" (I Tim. 3:15 "the house of God") also has its qualified ordained ministry (I Tim. 3:1-13) and its gospel ordinances and its mission (Mt. 28:19-20) and its institutional baptism (Ex. 40:35; 1 Kngs 8:3,11 with Acts 2:1) in the Spirit.
The New Covenant administration is for SAVED people only unlike the Old Covenant administration. Thus it no longer needs the administration of the law as a "school master to lead" us to Christ as we are SAVED and "in Christ" before we submit to New Covenant ordinances or enter into the membership of a New Covenant house of God.
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Isn't that greek? "you to my child?"
quantumfaith
Active Member
Small favor, if you have the chance to listen to a song by Kevin Woods, titled "Atonement", share with me the translation of the gaelic portions.
Thanks
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I'll be glad to listen to it. Can you still buy it? where can I get a copy? BTW you know I was Quoting Enya's song Samoite. It is a lovely translation. Celts had a very interesting way of looking at the world. In fact, I became interested in Welsh and gaelic by learning Tolkein Elvish as a teenager. I still have notes in Elvish from back then laying around the house. But I think Tolkien stole from Welsh. Yeah, I was a nerd in highschool but never mind I was also a prop on the rugby team and when I was in the Air Force I played for the Ramsey Rams.
Dr. Walter
New Member
This is the key to understanding the covenants properly. There is a difference between the "covenant" and its public and institutional administration. Both covenants have been in effect since Eden but the public administration of the old covenant began with Moses while the new Covenant did not occur until Christ fulfilled what the gospel preached before the cross promised and was embraced by faith (Acts 10:43; I Cor. 15:3-4 "according to the scriptures"). Thus the new covenant Public and isntitutionalized administration began with Christ as the old covenant public and institutionalized administration began with Moses.
OK.....What Dialect then are we translating?
None of which addresses my concern.
Ah yes discovered. Reportedly Caesar's last remark to Brutus.
The extent of my limited knowledge of Greek..... except for this little Greek lass I dated some years back. All I can say there is disappointment. If I played my cards right, I could have been a manager of diners throughout Northern NJ. Alas!
The extent of my limited knowledge of Greek..... except for this little Greek lass I dated some years back. All I can say there is disappointment. If I played my cards right, I could have been a manager of diners throughout Northern NJ. Alas!
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
That's where all the Greek diners in Pa went! And I thought Caeser said Et tu Brute?
Dr. Walter
New Member
Yes, it does, if you understand what I said properly. The gospel of Christ was predictive between Genesis 3:15 and Matthew 1. With the fulfillment by Christ in his life and death the gospel promise preached from Genesis 3:15 to Matthew 1 was fulfilled.
The Old Covenant public administration began with Moses was designed for lost people and predictive pointing forward to that fulfillment by Christ. The NEGATIVE ten commandments was designed to RESTRAIN the lost nature. The whole law system was designed to be a "school master" to lead the lost to Christ while confirming to the saved among Israel the gospel in which they believed and by which they received remission of sins (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2).
With the fulfilment of the New Covenant promise by the life and death of Christ, Christ ushered in a New Covenant public institutional administrator to replace the Old Covenant public institional administration. One that better represented the fulfilled gospel promise and better characterized those who actually beleived in that gospel. In doing away with the Old Covenant public administrator, the public administration of the civil, ceremonial and negative law was abolished. The establishment of the New Covenant public and institutional administrator (the church) was for professed born again Christians only. It was an administration that corresponded with the new covenant salvation that was preached in the Old Testament scriptures but had no public institutional administration. The New Covenant public administration was desgined for professed born again new covenant people only. As the negative ten commandments "thou shalt not" was designed to restrain the flesh as the Old Covenant administrator dealt with lost people primarily as a school master to lead to Christ, the new covenant administrator has the law of liberty that appeals to the regenerate nature. The ministry in the new covenant public institutionalized administrator are professed born again with lives that characterize that and qualify them for that office. The membership of the new covenant public institution demands profession of new birth BEFORE admission to the membership of the church and submission to the ordinances that delcare a previous born again status.
What the Old Covenant public institution predicted in its types, and qualifications for ministry the New Covenant public institution requires for actual participation in its ordinances, ministry and membership. Thus it is better and more consistent with the New Covenant gospel preached since Genesis 3:15.
TS..... If your serious, then contact the Plymouth Reformed Baptist Church in Plymouth (pronounced Plimit) PA (near Scranton / Wilkes ) they still teach the WELSH.... very difficult to pick up however....struggling with it for years.
& Rugby..... truly a mans game. But not till you break something... then you will be measured.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I did break a finger while playing rugby. Does that count? I've been to Wales. I love it there. Well, northern Wales by Betws-y-Coed. Snowdonia is just awsome.
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