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Roman Catholicism , cult or not? Part II

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
BobRyan,

Maybe we can 'temper' our rhetoric so that people we feel are at or over the 'intolerable' error line can breathe long enough to hear our reasons for feeling so?

As I said, or at least alluded too, earlier for many of us the moniker "Cult" is a line of demarcation that forbids fellowship of any kind except to drag people out of the fire...
I agree completely. Rushing over to an RC web site an posting on "the Mark of the Beast" or the "Beast in Revelation" or the whore of Babylon etc does not accomplish anything.

One must use common ground -- the Bible. To the extent that the RC member would reject all reference to the Word of God that was not entirely flattering to their traditions - one could also use frank confessions from the RC leadership itself on the points being raised.

To the extent that a given RC member would not like to entertain any thoughts negative to the chains of error that bind its members together - speak to another person on that board.

I am all about seeking "open doors" of opportunity.

In Christ,

Bob
 

Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by BobRyan:

1 - Praying to the dead.
2 - openly admitting to adopting pagan idols and using them to pray to the dead.
3 - inventing another after life of non-heaven non-hell (purgatory)
4 - "Condemming to EXTERMINATION" all who opposed it.
5 - inventing "Mary sinless like Christ" and "Co redemptrix QUEEN of the Universe"
6. - Inventing the doctrine that Mary was assumed into heaven BECAUSE LIKE Christ SHE TOO was sinless
7. - INVENTING the idea that a man HAS POWER to create God, RESACRIFICE Christ in the bread and wine AND to forgive sin. ADMITTING to the fact that she is "worshipping a piece of bread" IF her claims to CREATE God and resacrifice Christ were in fact "error".
8. Claiming that it's leaders on earth were doctrinally infallible!
9. Burning Bibles and making it illegal for any of its own membership outside of clergy to own or read the Bible!
10. Raising giving birth to rival splinter groups with their own infallible leader - then each one raising armies to slaughter the other - promising each army "HEAVEN" should they die in battle!
11. CREATING a system of torture so unique and pronounced that HISTORY marked its birth and progress!
12. CLaiming for it's high clergy the "PLACE OF GOD ON EARTH".
13. CLaimging for ALL MANKIND "NO salvation outside of the GRAYLIC Church"

... (The list goes on)...
[/QB]
Excellent Points
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You would have been qualified to be condemned as Heretic and to suffer Inquisition,if you had lived the Medieval Era, the Dark Age !
 

SpiritualMadMan

New Member
Point #2 is one some Protestants have used, though not with statuary, calling it a point of contact...

Point #8 been to a few Protestant Churches who sure acted like this was the case...

These are all good points, though..

*Some* of these are somewhat dated though...


I mean they haven't burned Bibles or Burned the Translators at the stake for a few hundred years. :D

But, still they need to change their practices... No question of that...

Mike Sr.
 

D28guy

New Member
mcneely,

"Catholics beleive that God sent his only son to die on the Cross for our sins,..."
Satan believes that wholeheartedly. He knows full well why Christ died.

"...and that he was the ultimate sacrifice for us."
Satan believes that to be true as well.

"They believe he was raised from the dead,..."
Satan does too. He was there when it happened.

"...and ascended into Heaven,"
Satan not only believes that, but he knows it to be true.

"and is seated at the right hand of the Father."
Satan believes that as well.

"And they believe That He is the one true God in three Divine and equal beings."
Satan believes that with all his evil heart.


Now...is Satan saved?


"All of your little antagonistic authors of these silly books can't convince me that a church that teaches and believes these things is a Cult influenced by Satan."
Why not? Believing those things gets nobody out of hell and into heaven. Reciting true facts will save nobody.

One is saved when they come to know their need, and they embrace Christ through faith, and thats faith alone.

We are justified by entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ...through faith alone...rather than believing certain facts to be true, as Satan does.

"And really, they shouldn't be convincing you either."
Being convinced that a false gospel is indeed false, and then being shown the true gospel, is exceedingly convincing.

The Catholic Church not only denies the saving gospel...justification through faith alone...but also proclaims the very false gospel that God Himself places His curse on in Galaciens...justification through faith + works.

God bless,

Mike
 

Melanie

Active Member
Site Supporter
Of course the more the Catholic Church is persecuted and it has been since its inception the more convincing is its authority, because if it was founded on lies and deception you would think it would have fizzled away....well I am off to Holy Mass to witness the word of the Lord in the Epistle and the Gospels and to offer by my presence my gratitude in the fact the Lord suffered and died for this worthless sinner on this Passion Sunday.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Originally posted by Briony-Gloriana:
Of course the more the Catholic Church is persecuted and it has been since its inception the more convincing is its authority, because if it was founded on lies and deception you would think it would have fizzled away....well I am off to Holy Mass to witness the word of the Lord in the Epistle and the Gospels and to offer by my presence my gratitude in the fact the Lord suffered and died for this worthless sinner on this Passion Sunday.
That's calling the kettle black. The decrees made at the Council of Trent still stand today and have never been repealed.

In spite of what Catholicism states, the Bible speaks differently. Following each Canon is a list of appropriate scriptures countering the Catholic position.

CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin," (Rom. 3:20).

CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name," (John 1:12).

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).

Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him," (John 3:36).

Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:1-3).

Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"(Rom.5:1).

• Canon 33: "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.
. This council declares that if anyone disagrees with it, they are damned.
http://www.carm.org/catholic/trent.htm

Now, just who is persecuting who?
DHK
 

mcneely

New Member
Originally posted by D28guy:
mcneely,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"Catholics beleive that God sent his only son to die on the Cross for our sins,..."
Satan believes that wholeheartedly. He knows full well why Christ died.

"...and that he was the ultimate sacrifice for us."
Satan believes that to be true as well.

"They believe he was raised from the dead,..."
Satan does too. He was there when it happened.

"...and ascended into Heaven,"
Satan not only believes that, but he knows it to be true.

"and is seated at the right hand of the Father."
Satan believes that as well.

"And they believe That He is the one true God in three Divine and equal beings."
Satan believes that with all his evil heart.


Now...is Satan saved?


"All of your little antagonistic authors of these silly books can't convince me that a church that teaches and believes these things is a Cult influenced by Satan."
Why not? Believing those things gets nobody out of hell and into heaven. Reciting true facts will save nobody.

One is saved when they come to know their need, and they embrace Christ through faith, and thats faith alone.

We are justified by entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ...through faith alone...rather than believing certain facts to be true, as Satan does.

"And really, they shouldn't be convincing you either."
Being convinced that a false gospel is indeed false, and then being shown the true gospel, is exceedingly convincing.

The Catholic Church not only denies the saving gospel...justification through faith alone...but also proclaims the very false gospel that God Himself places His curse on in Galaciens...justification through faith + works.

God bless,

Mike
</font>[/QUOTE]Was all that really necessary? Commentating every line using the same sentence? I don't agree with the Catholic faith. If I did, I would be a Catholic. But I do however think it is foolish to throw judgement on them. If the point is to evangelize Catholics on this board, you think the best way to do that is to lash out at them with all this hostility? PLEASE! Any reasonable person would see how silly that is!


---Justin
 

D28guy

New Member
McNeely...

"Was all that really necessary? Commentating every line using the same sentence?"
There were 6 seperate issues in that one sentance.

"But I do however think it is foolish to throw judgement on them."
I, and the others doing the same thing on these Catholic threads, are not judging any individual Catholics. We are judging some of the foundational Catholic doctrines to be completly false at best, and idolatry heresy and satanically inspired at worse.

"If the point is to evangelize Catholics on this board, you think the best way to do that is to lash out at them with all this hostility?"
Millions upon millions have fled the clutches of Rome for the arms of Jesus as a direct result of this type of information.

I am one of those multiplied millions

"PLEASE!"
Thats what WE are saying to Catholics as we share truth with them, and encourage them to embrace the true gospel.

"Any reasonable person would see how silly that is!"
Any reasonalbe person will see the error of Catholicism and flee it for Jesus.

God bless,

Mike
 

SpiritualMadMan

New Member
D28guy posted April 01, 2006 10:34 PM
Any reasonalbe person will see the error of Catholicism and flee it for Jesus
But, some don't...

Just like people don't leave a Baptist Error-Sect or Pentecsotal Error-Sect because mom and dad are still alive.

Or, they have friends or family members still there...

There are probably other reason they stay behind...

Potentially as a Fifth Column...

Personally, as a middle of the roader I find both the extreme Hyper-Calvinism and extreme Armenianism to be heresy...

But, as strongly as I feel that people caught up in a "Doctrine First" Cult need to be delivered I can not gain-say that they can get saved and stay saved even though they stay...

No matter how difficult it is to meet them on the street! :D

Mike Sr.
 

mcneely

New Member
Originally posted by D28guy:
McNeely...

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"Was all that really necessary? Commentating every line using the same sentence?"
There were 6 seperate issues in that one sentance.

"But I do however think it is foolish to throw judgement on them."
I, and the others doing the same thing on these Catholic threads, are not judging any individual Catholics. We are judging some of the foundational Catholic doctrines to be completly false at best, and idolatry heresy and satanically inspired at worse.

"If the point is to evangelize Catholics on this board, you think the best way to do that is to lash out at them with all this hostility?"
Millions upon millions have fled the clutches of Rome for the arms of Jesus as a direct result of this type of information.

I am one of those multiplied millions

"PLEASE!"
Thats what WE are saying to Catholics as we share truth with them, and encourage them to embrace the true gospel.

"Any reasonable person would see how silly that is!"
Any reasonalbe person will see the error of Catholicism and flee it for Jesus.

God bless,

Mike
</font>[/QUOTE]I doubt that this sort of "evangelizing" is going to compel any Catholics on this board or elsewhere to "flee the clutches of Rome". You implicated that you were a Catholic once, correct? Then you should know of the deep emotional ties that Catholics have with their faith and their church. Posting a thread that says "Roman Catholicism: Cult or not?" And all of the anti-RCC posts therin are just a big slap in the face to any Catholic. If we are trying to bring Catholics into the fold, it's going to have to get better than this.

---Justin
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Originally posted by mcneely:
I doubt that this sort of "evangelizing" is going to compel any Catholics on this board or elsewhere to "flee the clutches of Rome".
The purpose of this board was never meant for evangelization in the first place, though if that happens we rejoice. It is a Baptist Board set up primarily for Baptists to debate theological issues and to fellowship with one another in discussion of other topics of interest. We don't need to evangelize ourselves.
There is a part of this board set aside for "Other Christian Denominatins. The purposes are generally the same, except the membership is extended to those outside the Baptist faith, but still adhere to the basic tenets of Christianity. For that reason certain cults and religions are not allowed to post here. The forum is for fellowship among Christians.
That being said, one of the primary purposes of a thread like this is to expose false doctrine, and bear witness of the truth as the Bible commands us to. It is the true believers that need to be aware of other religions false doctrine. Look how many on this board defend the false doctrine of the Catholic Church without any Biblical leg to stand on. They are the ones that need to see the error and poison of false teachers that claim to be Christians, when in reality they are wolves in sheep's clothing.
DHK
 

mcneely

New Member
Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mcneely:
I doubt that this sort of "evangelizing" is going to compel any Catholics on this board or elsewhere to "flee the clutches of Rome".
The purpose of this board was never meant for evangelization in the first place, though if that happens we rejoice. It is a Baptist Board set up primarily for Baptists to debate theological issues and to fellowship with one another in discussion of other topics of interest. We don't need to evangelize ourselves.
There is a part of this board set aside for "Other Christian Denominatins. The purposes are generally the same, except the membership is extended to those outside the Baptist faith, but still adhere to the basic tenets of Christianity. For that reason certain cults and religions are not allowed to post here. The forum is for fellowship among Christians.
That being said, one of the primary purposes of a thread like this is to expose false doctrine, and bear witness of the truth as the Bible commands us to. It is the true believers that need to be aware of other religions false doctrine. Look how many on this board defend the false doctrine of the Catholic Church without any Biblical leg to stand on. They are the ones that need to see the error and poison of false teachers that claim to be Christians, when in reality they are wolves in sheep's clothing.
DHK
</font>[/QUOTE]I HAVE read many posts stating that it is important to teach the full gospel to Catholics. My point was simply that if it is done in the manner in which is read on this board, then it will not be very effective. I understand the purpose of this board, thank you.

---Justin
 

Bro. James

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Does this mean the Bibles translated from the Textus Receptus are still on the "banned book list"? Not many years ago, those who would translate and read such translations were excommunicated--many were killed. One was killed, buried, exhumed, burned and thrown into the river, or something to that effect--for having tranlated the Bible into English.

Are we saying the basic motives for such censoring behaviour have changed? I do not think so.

It does certainly appear that the Mother is allowing her daughters back--with certain conditions of course. Vatican II still speaks of "separated" brethren, and gives a certain subjugated authority--under the Holy See, of course.

What about those Christians who are not Protestant nor Catholic(not Mormon either)?
Yes, the ones who the Holy See tried to exterminate during the Dark Ages--long before Martin Luther and others were born.

We are still here.

Selah,

Bro. James
 

sundown

New Member
I believe D.H.K.has laid it out pretty good.
Thanks for letting other denominations speak.
The Papacy Has a role to play in Jerusalem puzzle.When our oldest Child was born/Delevered by A wonderful Doctor/Who happen to be Catholic.He is a Godly man,Our Doctor for 30 yrs.So what I am saying was a Lady delevered Her Baby about same time. The little was not going to make it.There was a mad dash to find Priest to Baptise Baby/because His Parents were Catholic.He was baptised before dying/But if that one day old Childs destney was in Question Then a lot of us are in trouble.This is one of many Questions about Catholic Church.Another one is the torture of Jews to convert to the Church.The Papacy has a large role to play in up comming Jerusalem Puzzle.I believe we have the last pope-He may go in Rapture/I wonder
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Bro. James:
What about those Christians who are not Protestant nor Catholic(not Mormon either)?
Yes, the ones who the Holy See tried to exterminate during the Dark Ages--long before Martin Luther and others were born.

We are still here.

Oh, you mean the Orthodox?
 

nate

New Member
Originally posted by sundown:
I believe we have the last pope-He may go in Rapture/I wonder
His Holiness Benedict is a conservative Pope and I have no problem thinking he may very well be in Heaven. (Though that is between him and God.)
 

Doubting Thomas

Active Member
Originally posted by Matt Black:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bro. James:
What about those Christians who are not Protestant nor Catholic(not Mormon either)?
Yes, the ones who the Holy See tried to exterminate during the Dark Ages--long before Martin Luther and others were born.

We are still here.

Oh, you mean the Orthodox? </font>[/QUOTE]Nice.
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