Roman Catholicism , cult or not? Part II

[D28guy]

mcneely,

"In my earlier message, I stated that every person who has truly accepted Christ, Catholic or protestant, has been grafted into the family. I don't feel that this can be challenged."

When has that ever been challenged?

Just to use 2 examples, both DHK and I understand...and proclaim...the truth concerning the idolatrous and blasphemous nature of the counterfeit "christian" group know as Roman Catholicism.

But I have never claimed that every single person in that group is doomed to hell, and I dont believe I've ever heard DHK say that. Of course its possible for some born again people to accidently stumble upon saving faith while in the Catholic Church.

DHK strongly condemns something I know to be very good. Pentecostal/Charismatic christianity. Yet I have never heard him say that every single individual person who is part of that group is lost and on the way to hell.

Regarding Catholicism, we are speaking strongly against a false group, false gospel, and hidiously wicked teachings, but we leave the eternal state of the individuals up to God.

God bless,

Mike

 

[mcneely]

So, in your own way, you're saying that a Catholic can be saved just the same as a protestant whithin their Church? And just because someone is Catholic (and remains one) doesen't mean that they are doomed? If so, I think I will be satisfied with just that, and leave you all to continue the theological/historical argument.

---Justin

 

[D28guy]

mcneely,

"So, in your own way, you're saying that a Catholic can be saved just the same as a protestant whithin their Church?"

They can stumble upon saving faith, yes, but I wouldnt agree with "just the same as a protestant within their church".

In a true christian church...protestant/evengelical/pentecostal, etc...they would find saving faith because of the message proclaimed. Namely, the saving gospel.

In a Catholic environment the saved one would somehow or another (probably from evangelical input somehow) find saving faith in spite of the non-saving gospel being proclaimed.

For obvious reasons the percentage of saved would be pretty small in such a non-gospel situation as the Catholic Church.

And just because someone is Catholic (and remains one) doesen't mean that they are doomed?

Not necesarrily, no.

"If so, I think I will be satisfied with just that, and leave you all to continue the theological/historical argument."

I'm glad I could be of help.

God bless,

Mike

 

[Chemnitz]

Our fellow posters are painting with a broad brush when speaking of the ecumenical movement. What they are railing against is the popular version of the movement which is heavily based in postmodern thought (its all good as long as you are true to it). The true ecumenical process seeks to find true consensus and agreement in doctrine, which is a goal to be desired and worked towards.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
Our fellow posters are painting with a broad brush when speaking of the ecumenical movement. What they are railing against is the popular version of the movement which is heavily based in postmodern thought (its all good as long as you are true to it). The true ecumenical process seeks to find true consensus and agreement in doctrine, which is a goal to be desired and worked towards.

That is an impossibility between denominational barriers. You of all people ought to know that. You are a Lutheran posting on a Baptist board. Which of your Lutheran doctrine are you willing to give up so that you will be in unity and harmony with us Baptists. The Catholic view of the ecumenical movement is to bring all denominations under the Catholic umbrella. One day it will happen--just as it is described in the Book of Revelation. It will be a one world church ruled by the antichrist and the false prophet. But when that does happen, I don't plan to be here.

DHK

 

[Eliyahu]

I have no doubt that Ecumenical movement is one of the strategy of Catholic's Inorganic growth ( Integration of all Religions) even though it started in the form of Protestants integration in the beginning.
Human beings cannot be integrated unless Holy Spirit works for it as we could see from Babel Tower in Genesis 11.

 

[riverm]

Originally posted by nate:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BobRyan:
And then of course there is --

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3755/18.html#000260

Still waiting

I'm surprised being raised IFBC they see the SDA church as being a cult. So you wouldn't like that but you can get on BB and call others a cult. If the RCC is a cult so is your own SDA which has it's fair share of problems. "Pick the beam of your eye before worrying about the splinter in your brothers."
In Christ,
Nate

Eccere nullus-a-um salus-utis externus Christus! </font>[/QUOTE]I was raised IFB and the SDA's were always considered a Cult. The RCC was never considered a Cult in any IFBC I attended, but they weren't considered Chrstian either...

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by riverm:
I was raised IFB and the SDA's were always considered a Cult. The RCC was never considered a Cult in any IFBC I attended, but they weren't considered Chrstian either... [/QB]

That's the problem with the people who are running thru wide gate on the Broad ways:

Matt 7:13
for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:


Roman Catholic is the biggest Cult which succeeded in the human world by killing and torturing the true believers, by Inquisition etc.

They are not condemned very much because they succeeded in human eyes as the Coup d'etat is not punished if it has succeeded.

 

[neal4christ]

It may not deny the deity of Jesus Christ. However:
There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
To be saved one must be baptized into the Catholic Church.
All doctrine originates from one source (not the Bible), but the magesterium.
All doctrine must have only one interpretation (that of the magesterium).
The Bible is not the final authority, rather there is another authority to appeal to--Oral Tradition.
The gospel is another gospel--a gospel of works which Paul calls anathema.
It is not a gospel of grace through faith.
Grace is redefined.
Grace supposedly works through "sacraments" which the Bible knows nothing of.
The belief that Christ paid the full penalty for our sins is denied, in that one has to pay part of that penalty in purgatory.
The sacrifice of Christ was not sufficient, therefore he must be resacrificed again and again.
How many times must Christ be re-sacrificed until his sacrifice is sufficient enough to pay for our sins??

All the above puts the RCC in the realm of a cult. You cannot believe in the above doctrines and be a Christian at the same time. It is an impossibility.
DHK

DHK,

I hope you are not serious with these false claims. If you are, I hope it is because you are ignorant of the Church's teachings, and not blatantly misrepresenting it.

 

[neal4christ]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Roman Catholic is the biggest Cult which succeeded in the human world by killing and torturing the true believers, by Inquisition etc.

They are not condemned very much because they succeeded in human eyes as the Coup d'etat is not punished if it has succeeded.

Would you care to elaborate, please?

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Roman Catholic is the biggest Cult which succeeded in the human world by killing and torturing the true believers, by Inquisition etc.

They are not condemned very much because they succeeded in human eyes as the Coup d'etat is not punished if it has succeeded.

Would you care to elaborate, please? </font>[/QUOTE]Do you recognize the followings are conforming to the Bible teaching?

The most of the true believers reject the followings:

- Idol making for Mary or Joseph or Jesus
- Idol worshipping for those statues
- calling Mary Mother of God, meaning God the Son of Mary.
- Immaculate Conception
- Compulsory Celibacy
- Papacy
- Papal infallibility
- Inquisition
- Whory Tradition of so-called holy tradition
- Infant Baptism
- No Salvation outside Roman Catholic Church
- Excuse on Crusade
- Purgatory
- Limbo
- Clergy system
- Mass which is ever asking forgiveness of the sins
- Confession to priests
- Transubstantiation ( Magic performance by Catholic Priests)
- Extreme unction
- Assumption of Mary
- Prayer to the dead
- Prayer to Mary
- calling Mary the Mother of the church
- all the signs of pagan origin such as ankh cross, mark of IHS, threefold hats for the pope, etc.


I reject those teachings. If I had lived the Medieval era, could I survive there without being condemned as Heretics?

What about these Murderous Inquisitions?

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0811Inquisition.html

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1676.cfm


Do you believe in the Purgatory?
Do you believe you have to spend indefinite years in Purgatory and your destiny will depend on the prayers and alms-giving by your relatives?

Do you know that the Robber at the Cross went to the Paradise directly without going to Purgatory?

How do you believe that you can get out of Purgatory? If it is neither by the Grace thru Jesus Christ, nor by your own effort, but only by the prayers and almsgiving of other people, will they suffice to satisfy the requirements by God? Can any human efforts suffice to God?

Please compare your miserable situation with the Robber who went to Paradise directly!

Do you believe Mary has become so Omni-Present to accept the prayers from 1.3 billion people in the world?

Don't you know that the dead people are sleeping? Have you ever read Bible in the followings?

1 Cor 11:30, 1 Cor 15:20, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-15? What does Ecclesiates 9:5 say about the dead people ?

 

[Living_stone]

Why is this board so obsessed with Catholics?

I'm pretty new, but I was just digging through the history and every third or fourth post was about the Catholic church...?

???

I've personally been investgating them for years now, and I think that some of what they teach makes sense, even if I don't necessarily agree with it all.

Are there any Catholics on this board?

 

[The Galatian]

Yep. And a lot of the anti-Catholic stuff is defensiveness by people who think Catholics despise them.

There certainly are some Cathoics who are flaming bigots as bad as anything you'll see here among antiCatholics.

But they aren't running the Church. Indeed, on some Catholic boards, they are loudly protesting the spirit of reconcilliation and euchemenism that has been promoted by recent Popes.

The irony of course, is that they are ultratraditionalists, and by their own principles, they should be submitting to the Pope on this issue.

But if you look around here, you'll find many Baptists who have no hatred at all for the Church.

 

[D28guy]

neal4christ...

DHK said...

"It may not deny the deity of Jesus Christ. However:
There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
To be saved one must be baptized into the Catholic Church.
All doctrine originates from one source (not the Bible), but the magesterium.
All doctrine must have only one interpretation (that of the magesterium).
The Bible is not the final authority, rather there is another authority to appeal to--Oral Tradition.
The gospel is another gospel--a gospel of works which Paul calls anathema.
It is not a gospel of grace through faith.
Grace is redefined.
Grace supposedly works through "sacraments" which the Bible knows nothing of.
The belief that Christ paid the full penalty for our sins is denied, in that one has to pay part of that penalty in purgatory.
The sacrifice of Christ was not sufficient, therefore he must be resacrificed again and again.

And you said...

"I hope you are not serious with these false claims. If you are, I hope it is because you are ignorant of the Church's teachings, and not blatantly misrepresenting it."

DHK is not misrepresenting the Catholic Church at all. It is teachings such as these that place the Catholic Church of Rome outside the realm of biblical christianity and in the realm of the cults.

As a matter of fact, DHK was being lenient.

He didnt say anything about the Goddess worship directed towards the sinner saved by grace Mary.

Sadly,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

Living stone,

"Why is this board so obsessed with Catholics?"

Well, I just took a look at the 1st page of this board.

19 of 25 topics are about something other than Catholicism.

God bless,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

The Galatien,

"Yep. And a lot of the anti-Catholic stuff is defensiveness by people who think Catholics despise them."

(((WHAT???)))

Where in the world did that come from?

We share with Catholics and Catholic sympathisers because we recognise the Catholic Church for what it is...a false christian group teaching a false gospel...and for the same reason we share with anyone else.

The love of God compels us to.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

[Melanie]

Do not be bowed down by the relentlessness of SOME posters on this Board being rabidly anti Catholic...there are a lot of grand folk here as well.

It is a BAPTIST board and as such I adhere to the policy guidelines of this board.....despite, being seriously conservative Catholic, I have had cause to defend the Board on other religious forums... namely Catholic....bigots exist everywhere, I personally try hard not to tar a whole group of folks through the speech of a few.

 

[Claudia_T]

Well let me think a minute. If there is the Roman Catholic Church and then the other however many churches are PROTEST-ant Churches....

The PROTEST-ant Church was created to PROTEST the Catholic Church. And so if you come to a PROTEST-ant Message Board, well what would you expect?

Im actually surprised many even dare to say anything bad about the Roman Catholic Church these days because so many so-called PROTEST-ants have taken the attitude that they need to beg the Roman Catholic Church's pardon for their uncharitible opinion of her in the past.

Its nice to see theres at least a little bit of the Protestant spirit alive out there, even in this Ecumenical-obsessed so called "Christian" world we see today.

its like, "Well gee, they just murdered a few million people or so, get over it already!"
And the Catholics try and make you feel like you are terrible for even mentioning it and then you've got the so-called Protestants who join in with her in this "Our church is a martyr because we have to put up with this" baloney.

And the Catholic Church somehow turns things around and acts like now THEY are the "victims" when anyone dares to point out the things they have done.

and the blind Protestants who have no idea who they are teaming up with will defend the Catholic Church, little realizing they they would turn on them in a moment if the climate was right and begin their persecutions again, given half the chance.

Claudia

 

[Living_stone]

19 of 25 topics are about something other than Catholicism.

6/25 is 24% - that's essentially a quarter of the posts - and the longer posts at that...

 

[Eliyahu]

I wonder if the RC's or Pro-RC's here have ever read the Bible carefully, in 1 Kings 17:1- 2 Kings 2:14, where Elijah fought Baal Worshippers, Idol Worshippers vehemently.

Was Elijah wrong?

Didn't God condemn the Idol Worshippers severely?

Has God changed His commandments since after Holy Mother Mary?

1 Cor 6: 9-10

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God .


15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


Do the Roman Catholics obey this teaching?

1 Cor 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater , or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Why does Bible condemn Idol worship more than 100 times, more than 20 times in NT only?
and why does Roman Catholic continue the whorish Idol Worship ? Can't they stop it ?

Why didn't New Testament make any exception for Mary, so-called Holy Mother?