Roman Catholicism

[Claudia_T]

I thought that I would like to start a thread on Roman Catholicism in general.

First of all, what is it that makes people want to be a Roman Catholic? Do most people just grow up as Catholic?

How can someone start out being a Protestant and then actually leave the Protestant Church to become a Catholic?

Secondly, Why is it that in times past. Protestants were so anti Catholic but as time goes by they are more and more accepting of the Catholic ways? And do you think that this is a good thing or a bad thing?

Claudia

 

[Blammo]

How can someone start out being a Protestant and then actually leave the Protestant Church to become a Catholic?

Secondly, Why is it that in times past. Protestants were so anti Catholic but as time goes by they are more and more accepting of the Catholic ways?

Looks like you answered your own question.

 

[Claudia_T]

I dont see why you say I answered my own question and Im looking for other people's opinions...

 

[Blammo]

Claudia-

I was simply pointing out that you said Protestants seem to be "as time goes by they are more and more accepting of the Catholic ways?"

After asking "How can someone start out being a Protestant and then actually leave the Protestant Church to become a Catholic?"

In my opinion it is very bad.

 

[drfuss]

Claudia writes:
"Secondly, Why is it that in times past. Protestants were so anti Catholic but as time goes by they are more and more accepting of the Catholic ways? And do you think that this is a good thing or a bad thing?"

Catholics oppose abortion and the homosexul lifestyle (officially at least). Compared to some protestant denominations, the catholics look good in that they stand with christians on these issues. As for worship and beliefs, I don't think christians are accepting catholic ways more than before.

Perhaps you could be more specific on what catholic ways you think we are accepting.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Most Catholics I know grew up Catholic.

I think it is incorrect to group all Catholics together. In many ways, they are a varied group - though perhaps not as much as Protestant. First of all, there are various types of Catholics -- Roman Catholic, Marionite Catholic, etc. Within the Roman church, you have still have diversity.

The Catholic church near my home is an evangelical, charismatic church. Is that unique or what?? Their worship songs are pretty much the same at my church. I've even heard a traditional invitation at a funeral there - though that may not be the norm.

In addition, I have much more in common with our Catholic brethren compared to many of the more liberal Protestants. As a Reformed Christian, I doubt that I would ever go there and "join up," I do accept them as brothers and sisters in Lord if they have placed their faith in Christ for salvation.

God's Best,

 

[Eric B]

Catholics oppose abortion and the homosexul lifestyle (officially at least). Compared to some protestant denominations, the catholics look good in that they stand with christians on these issues. As for worship and beliefs, I don't think christians are accepting catholic ways more than before.

OK, those are the mainline Protestants that have watered down in those areas. Then, you have the evangelicals which are still strong in those areas, but the other major thing driving many to Catholicism is what they see as shallow worship, especially in the Contemporary scene. So the pomp and ritual of Catholicism is seen as awe insriring and reflecting God's majesty, so many are drawn to it.

 

[BobRyan]

Claudia writes:
"Secondly, Why is it that in times past. Protestants were so anti Catholic but as time goes by they are more and more accepting of the Catholic ways? And do you think that this is a good thing or a bad thing?"

Catholics oppose abortion and the homosexul lifestyle (officially at least). Compared to some protestant denominations, the catholics look good in that they stand with christians on these issues. As for worship and beliefs, I don't think christians are accepting catholic ways more than before.

Perhaps you could be more specific on what catholic ways you think we are accepting.

The "Catholic vote" in America has been overwhelmingly pro-abortion in terms of political platform. You could argue "they were voting for those candidates IN SPITE of their stand on abortion not because of it" but in so doing the RC vote indicated that it thought the liberal social agenda was MORE important by comparison than the value they assigned to the abortion issue.

There are a few notable exception to this rule in 2 or 3 elections over the past 50 years. One is in the case of Reagan and the second unique example is in the case of George W. Bush.

Other than that - their vote has always been for the pro-abortion candidate. I do not see that THIS is what is driving Evangelicals to bridge the divide with Catholics.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

What drives Christians to become JW's, RC's.. etc. Many here would conclude it is because IN their home churches they were ALREADY not grounded in the Word.

Maybe so - but what are we doing about it!

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

I agree with Eric that it may be in response to the often shallow teaching and worship in current evangelical circles.

In fact, I used to listen to a Catholic radio show on the drive to work each morning instead of the local Christian radio. It was much more in depth and less happy, happy "God bless you" that is so prevelant. Unfortunately, it is no longer on the air.

 

[Claudia_T]

The Claim of Infallibility

Protestants do regard Roman Catholicism with more favor than in former years. People have taken a course to reconcile with Catholicism to be able to gain influence such as in the ecumenical movement.

There doesnt seem to be near as much concern over the differences in doctrine that Protestants have with the Catholics. The position is that oh well we dont seem to be so different than they are. Protestants used to abhor popery and fear that their liberty of conscience would be taken away if they were to make any concessions with Rome.

As far as the persecution of "heretics" in the past goes by Roman Catholics goes, Protestants act like it is unjust to hold any animosity toward the Catholic church and that these things are just something in the past to be forgotten.

But the Catholic Church claims infallibility and that the "church never erred; nor will it, according to the Scriptures, ever err " (John L. von Mosheim, Institutes of Ecclesiastical History, book 3), and so how can the church renounce the principles which governed her in past history?

The claim is that all she has done in persecuting those who disagree with her, is right.. and so wouldnt the catholic church repeat these same acts if just given the opportunity? The secular goivernment is keeping her from doing what she did in the past in persecuting heretics. but if these restraints were removed, and the Catholic church restored to her former power, persecution and tyranny would again be the result.
I just think that alot of things have caused Protestants to forget what the Catholic church is really all about.... and to let down their guard.

 

[FollowMeHome]

I can't answer your question from personal experience. I have tried to go from Catholic to Baptist and couldn't do it. I joined a Southern Baptist church with my husband for two years. During that time, I was very spiritually unfulfilled. I desperately missed the richness of the Mass and prayer life. I tried it for all the wrong reasons.

I came here looking for answers to help me find the answers I needed in order to make the conversion to another Christian faith. A few people sent me e-mails, privately, to give me suggestions, but for the most part I was told that my concept of Christianity is WRONG and that the Catholic church is an evil sect. I wonder how so many who have never been Catholic can jump to judgement the way they do.

May I suggest that you tune into EWTN's Journey Home. This program primarily focuses on people who have converted from other faiths to Catholicism. One of the most prominent Catholic apoologist and educator was formerly a Presbyterian minister. Scott Hahn wrote a book, Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism, telling of his journey from a Protestant minister to a Catholic educator. Catholic converts (from Protestant religions) tend to be much more enthusiastic about Catholicism than craddle Catholics. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic church "comes with a lot of trimming". If you are used to pomp and circumstance - vaulted ceilings, high platforms, images towering above you the sense that you are in a great awesome temple - with high holy authorities in charge of the place. The RCC is the place to be.

The rituals, the chanting the ceremony - it is all ""designed" to convince you that the leadership is in charge - this thing is way too big and to complex for you to worry your pretty little head about whether it is actually right or Biblical, and you are "told" that "we are right and everyone else is not even a church they just pretend to BE us".

The RCC teaches that NO other communion but the RC communion participates in fact "the New Covenant". The rituals and chanting are supposed to change bread into God - Mark the soul, free from the quilt of sin. Avail you of heaven --

The Priest has "POWERS" that DO no leave him EVEN if he is "excommunicated". His holy POWERS can save your infant just by a few magic montras said with holy water that HE makes holy!

The more complex, mystical (and yes mythica), ornate the ceremony - the more it "seems like" God is behind it and you are connected to another world and the actual power of God. Even the bread is said to be your CONNECTION to Christ "Christ in you" the grace of Christ being infused in you, the New Covenant taken INTO you, Life IN you -- all based on outward ceremony, form and ritual NO NEEd go to God alone in prayer "unless you want to". No need to study the bible to see what God actually says "unless you want to" because these professionals are taking care of it "for you".

When you compare that to a typical evangelical church - what you actually have? Nothing! If that church is charismatic or even Pentecostal you have anarchy, pandemonium, "the rabble" instead of the "form, the reverenence, the POWER of those WITH magical spiritual powers". How in the world could you be satisfied with that?

If you have non-charismatic service then all you reallly get is the "draw" of the pastor - or the "draw" of contemporary music. And when you think of that "small town church idea" as a substitute for the best known "church" in the world -- with Powerful figures like the Pope and the awesome structures, and the claims to magic powers and rules and family and friends that are totaly sold out culturally and traditionally to that "institution" ... etc - well you really have nothing to compare it to.

 

[BobRyan]

going to the RCC and studying your Bible to SEE what it says - is kind of like going to the doctor AND reading JAMA or some anatomy and physiology text book on your own. It is ok to do - but would you really trust your own understanding of such vast subjects and EVER challenge your doctor - your surgeon?

 

[BobRyan]

Let's say for example you married a Catholic girl that was very superstitious about the family and what has to be done to get to heaven using the services of the RCC. If you were not a Bible student and you walked into the Catholic church with your spouse - would you not feel like you had just been ushered into a holy temple!

I mean - no reading of anything - just come in sit, chant, recite, kneel-stand-kneel-turn-sit-bow -- see the holy water on the way in - see how everyone is totally bought into this - like a child walking into an amusement park for the first time. Takes you right into another world - a holy place where everyone just knows they are in the right place.

Can't beat it.

 

[Claudia_T]

Bob,

last night I was thinking along the same lines as you are. In the Catholic Church there is a ceremony for everything you can think of which must provide a certain amount of security. Plus a Saint to pray to for every problem that comes along.

Not to mention, if you sin well all you have to do is go confess to the priest and go home and say a few Our Fathers and Hail Marys and **presto!** ... everything is solved! You just can't beat that.

Claudia

 

[FollowMeHome]

Claudia,

Why would you start a topic just to talk amongst yourselves about something you know nothing about? It's like the blind leading the blind.

I would think that you would be interested in learning something for a change. Pardon me, if forget you and Bob Ryan know if all.

The "ceremonies" in the Catholic church are called WORSHIP. Have you ever shown your love for GOD and his Son, Jesus Christ, by knelling in prayer? You might try it sometime. What is your method for asking for forgiveness of sin? Or don't you sin?

Bob,

My Catholic church has Bible study classes weekly. It may not be on Sunday, but it accomplishes the same. You and yours read the Bible and interpret it any way that suits your purpose. Whatever that may be.

:banghead: (should know there wouldn't be an emoticon to express dissenting opinion.)

 

[BobRyan]

FMH - when we get into Catholic doctrinal questions on this board (like "is purgatory just another invention of RC tradition" or "is it ok to ignore the Bible in favor of RC tradition") we get a lot of interesting posts from the RC membership here.

I have no doubt at all that these same explanations, appeals to certain ECFs and appeals to tradition are also available from RC proponents in Catholic-only contexts just as they are here. In fact my guess is that the argument made in favor of the RC view is much stronger than many non-RC members had imagined and that is another fact contributing to the times when a non-RC Christian crosses over to the RC side.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Claudia_T]

FollowMeHome

My mother was a Catholic Nun and I used to be a Catholic so its not like Im ignorant about this subject. I just want to hear other people's opinions about it.

...and then I want to share my own opinion about it.



Claudia

 

[BobRyan]

Mother was a Catholic Nun? - I am guessing she stopped being a Nun.