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Roman Catholicism
- Thread starter Claudia_T
- Start date
Charles Meadows
New Member
Hmm.....
I grew up catholic and was a fairly devout youth until I drifted into agnosticism in college.
After I was saved (in a southern baptist church) I began to search theologically. I chose not to return to catholicism.
Several observations:
1. Many Christians are in certain denominations because they grew up there. There is comfort in familiarity. This is certainly the case with many catholics.
The RCC has a lot of not-so-biblical traditions. I agree with Friend of Spurgeon that there is a lot of heterogeneity among catholics. I can think of three types of catholics:
a. There are many Christians within the RCC who worship God fervently. They perform traditional catholic rites (rosary etc) but view them as means of worship and not as essential rituals. My whole family (parents and siblings) is still catholic and my mother and brother are certainly Christians.
b. There are those catholics who are fanatically catholic. This is where you will find the mariolatry! These individuals believe that all non catholics are going to hell and that the ritual sacramental works confer necessary grace. This is an imprecise definition according to what the magisterium of the RCC would say but it typifies the mindset of some arch-catholics!
c. Finally there are those catholics who go to church for Easter, Christmas, and first communion services. These usually view religion as subservient to societal needs and are not much different than liberal mainline protestants.
In my mind the "a" catholics are very much Christians while the "b" and "c" catholics are likely lost.
In the end I chose the baptist church because of its emphasis on letting Christ rule our lives. The personal relationship with God (not viewing our relationship with Him as a corporate church) is the one thing that was missing in my religious experience as a child - hence my drifting away!
I grew up catholic and was a fairly devout youth until I drifted into agnosticism in college.
After I was saved (in a southern baptist church) I began to search theologically. I chose not to return to catholicism.
Several observations:
1. Many Christians are in certain denominations because they grew up there. There is comfort in familiarity. This is certainly the case with many catholics.
The RCC has a lot of not-so-biblical traditions. I agree with Friend of Spurgeon that there is a lot of heterogeneity among catholics. I can think of three types of catholics:
a. There are many Christians within the RCC who worship God fervently. They perform traditional catholic rites (rosary etc) but view them as means of worship and not as essential rituals. My whole family (parents and siblings) is still catholic and my mother and brother are certainly Christians.
b. There are those catholics who are fanatically catholic. This is where you will find the mariolatry! These individuals believe that all non catholics are going to hell and that the ritual sacramental works confer necessary grace. This is an imprecise definition according to what the magisterium of the RCC would say but it typifies the mindset of some arch-catholics!
c. Finally there are those catholics who go to church for Easter, Christmas, and first communion services. These usually view religion as subservient to societal needs and are not much different than liberal mainline protestants.
In my mind the "a" catholics are very much Christians while the "b" and "c" catholics are likely lost.
In the end I chose the baptist church because of its emphasis on letting Christ rule our lives. The personal relationship with God (not viewing our relationship with Him as a corporate church) is the one thing that was missing in my religious experience as a child - hence my drifting away!
same
Claudia said...
Thats a very strange and very sad thing. The Catholic propagandists attempting to hoodwink evangelicals/protestants are very clever, and very well indoctrinated by their Hierarchial "programmers".
The Catholic Church has had 1700 years to perfect its camoflage in order to disquise its counterfiet form of *christianity*.
Thank God for all of the "Reaching Catholics for Jesus" type ministries that are in existance these days.
Follow me home...
1st of all, let me say that despite what you have read so far from me in this post I do not hate you in the least. I'm sure you are a nice and honorable person whom I would be glad to count as a friend if we worked together or something like that. My concerns are with the false gospel, hidiously false teachings, goddess worship and idolatrous nature of the Catholic Church and its Hieararchy...not with individual Catholics. I believe their are born again Catholics..(though surely an extreme minority),..and you could very well be one of them. I see catholic people as being the victims of the Catholic Church, and out of love I will not shrink back from telling them the truth.
You said...
I was born Catholic and lived my 1st 24 years as a Catholic. 8 years of Catholic parochial school, religion class, catechism class and mass on Sunday.
(however, we were never encouraged by anyone..priest, nun, CCD teacher, etc..to regularly and INDIVIDUALLY feed on Gods scriptures as we all should do, with the expectation..as we all should expect..that God would actually SPEAK to us and "grow us" as a result. As a born again person now I understand completly why they could not do that)
Anyway, in my 25th year of physical life some born again evangelicals...many of them...shared the gospel of Jesus Christ with me.
I had never heard it before.
After 2-3 years of conviction I finally came to the end of my rope, and submitted to Gods wooing. Through faith alone I was permanently "sealed" into the body of Christ..through the renewal of the Holy Spirit..and my life has never been the same since. Praise be to God!\o/
I watch EWTN often, and have seen that program many many times. It breaks my heart to see the subtle yet poisionous deception that goes on on that program and others.
I havent read that book, but I know of Scott Hahn.
Have you read the book "Far from Rome, near to GOD"?
It contains the word for word testimonies of multitudes upon multitudes of converted Catholic priests. There is also a good book called "The Fatal Flaw" by James White that will be a great benefit to you.
The Catholic Church is overflowing with hellish errors, FMH. They deny the gospel of Jesus Christ..(justification through faith alone)..while promoting the very works base false gospel that Almighty God specifically condemns in Galatians.
The Catholic Church attitude towards Mary is nothing less than full blown goddess worship.
The Catholic view of the Lords Supper memorial found in the scriptures turns it into full blown idolatry.
So many of the practices of the Catholic Church..the rosary, the scapulars, the little "protection" statues, etc etc etc are nothing more than superstition and paganism.
I hope and pray that in due time God will bless you with an understanding of these things and lead you out of this organisation called the Catholic Church.
Grace and peace to you,
(and I mean that)
Mike
Claudia said...
Thats a very strange and very sad thing. The Catholic propagandists attempting to hoodwink evangelicals/protestants are very clever, and very well indoctrinated by their Hierarchial "programmers".
The Catholic Church has had 1700 years to perfect its camoflage in order to disquise its counterfiet form of *christianity*.
Thank God for all of the "Reaching Catholics for Jesus" type ministries that are in existance these days.
Follow me home...
1st of all, let me say that despite what you have read so far from me in this post I do not hate you in the least. I'm sure you are a nice and honorable person whom I would be glad to count as a friend if we worked together or something like that. My concerns are with the false gospel, hidiously false teachings, goddess worship and idolatrous nature of the Catholic Church and its Hieararchy...not with individual Catholics. I believe their are born again Catholics..(though surely an extreme minority),..and you could very well be one of them. I see catholic people as being the victims of the Catholic Church, and out of love I will not shrink back from telling them the truth.
You said...
I was born Catholic and lived my 1st 24 years as a Catholic. 8 years of Catholic parochial school, religion class, catechism class and mass on Sunday.
(however, we were never encouraged by anyone..priest, nun, CCD teacher, etc..to regularly and INDIVIDUALLY feed on Gods scriptures as we all should do, with the expectation..as we all should expect..that God would actually SPEAK to us and "grow us" as a result. As a born again person now I understand completly why they could not do that)
Anyway, in my 25th year of physical life some born again evangelicals...many of them...shared the gospel of Jesus Christ with me.
I had never heard it before.
After 2-3 years of conviction I finally came to the end of my rope, and submitted to Gods wooing. Through faith alone I was permanently "sealed" into the body of Christ..through the renewal of the Holy Spirit..and my life has never been the same since. Praise be to God!\o/
I watch EWTN often, and have seen that program many many times. It breaks my heart to see the subtle yet poisionous deception that goes on on that program and others.
I havent read that book, but I know of Scott Hahn.
Have you read the book "Far from Rome, near to GOD"?
It contains the word for word testimonies of multitudes upon multitudes of converted Catholic priests. There is also a good book called "The Fatal Flaw" by James White that will be a great benefit to you.
The Catholic Church is overflowing with hellish errors, FMH. They deny the gospel of Jesus Christ..(justification through faith alone)..while promoting the very works base false gospel that Almighty God specifically condemns in Galatians.
The Catholic Church attitude towards Mary is nothing less than full blown goddess worship.
The Catholic view of the Lords Supper memorial found in the scriptures turns it into full blown idolatry.
So many of the practices of the Catholic Church..the rosary, the scapulars, the little "protection" statues, etc etc etc are nothing more than superstition and paganism.
I hope and pray that in due time God will bless you with an understanding of these things and lead you out of this organisation called the Catholic Church.
Grace and peace to you,
(and I mean that)
Mike
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"Pray to thy Father" ( Mt 6:6)
I wonder what made you not pray to the Father in Heaven directly, but pray to the dead fathers and to a dead woman.
Already we discussed whether Mary is Omni-Present to accept the prayers from 1.3 Billion Catholics or not. Does she understand about the computers, all the human problems, etc?
Whe was her capacity explosively expanded ? Any person becomes Omni-Scient, Omni-Present, Omni-Potent, once he or she died?
Why are the Catholics afflicting the woman sleeping in Christ?
Do we have to pray to the dead saints?
What made you fear to pray to God the Father directly?
Beware of Receiving Blessings from Vatican:
http://www.alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/bewareof.html
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Briony-Gloriana said:
If you do not go to confession and yet go to Mass -- what does the RCC say - since you know you have sins to be confessed?
If you skip mass - skip the Sunday obligation - just because you don't feel like going - "Chalk it up to a lazy sin to be confessed later" - what does the RCC say about that?
Who do you confess to -
The RCC says he is excommunicated because he is teaching heresy YET his magic "powers remain" according to the RCC - what say you?
The RCC says that the "NEW COVENANT" is limited to and restricted to those that particiapte in the Catholic Mass. So NO non-Catholics covered by the New Covenant that YOU claim is taught to be just a "nice thing to do". What say you - do YOU admit non-Catholics to be under the New Covenant "anyway"?
Then there is prayers to the dead -- an even more interesting subject.
Catholic spokesman on EWTN history section - Dr Carroll admitted that even Billy Graham would have been "burned at the stake" by the RCC in the dark ages IF he taught THEN what he teaches NOW. What say you GB - "a good tradition"?? Infallible?
Catholic historians admit to a time in the dark ages when Catholics divided up their armies between Popes and fought each other THEN all 3 papal lines were deposed and a new Pope selected. What say you GB - which Pope's army would youhave KNOWN to be the "good guys" and known to support prior to that decision to defrock him?
In Christ,
Bob
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Charles Meadows
New Member
As Christians we are all on the same team. But I have to shake my head when I hear catholics being derided by those who revere Ellen G. White as a prophet.
I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church and left in the early 1970's when I was about eighteen. While my mother was raised a Presbyterian, she converted to Catholicism when I was about six years old. With the exception of my sister and me, my family remain Roman Catholic.
One of the appeals of Catholicism, I believe, is that it is ancient. Since the rituals, ceremonies, and theology go back many centuries there is a certain comfort provided in that continuity. Moreover, when you attend a Catholic mass there is a sense solemness and dignity - even holiness - that one does not always find in the modern evangelical church. And unlike many contemporary Protestant services on Sunday morning, the Catholic mass does not make one feel as though they have been "entertained." With so much shallowness and faddism in today's world (including the church) I think there is a seriousness in Catholicism that appeals to people, which is why the Catholic church is gaining new converts and is growing.
That said, Catholicism has some very serious theological problems and practices that we Protestants rightly criticise and even abhor. As opposed to Catholicism, I believe that we evangelicals are correct when we say that the basis of the Christian faith is Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura .
To our Catholic friends, I would say that I can understand how you might be uncomfortable in a church that is so different from what you are used to. However, I would also remind you that the choice of churches is not limited to either a Catholic or a Baptist church. For instance, if you are really uncomfortable in a Baptist church, before returning to Catholicism I would suggest that you might find familiarity in a Biblically sound fellowship like the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (indeed, many Lutherans call themselves "evangelical Catholics"). Baptists may differ from Lutherans on some points, but in the crucial issues regarding salvation and the Word of God the Missouri Synod Lutherans are sound.
One of the appeals of Catholicism, I believe, is that it is ancient. Since the rituals, ceremonies, and theology go back many centuries there is a certain comfort provided in that continuity. Moreover, when you attend a Catholic mass there is a sense solemness and dignity - even holiness - that one does not always find in the modern evangelical church. And unlike many contemporary Protestant services on Sunday morning, the Catholic mass does not make one feel as though they have been "entertained." With so much shallowness and faddism in today's world (including the church) I think there is a seriousness in Catholicism that appeals to people, which is why the Catholic church is gaining new converts and is growing.
That said, Catholicism has some very serious theological problems and practices that we Protestants rightly criticise and even abhor. As opposed to Catholicism, I believe that we evangelicals are correct when we say that the basis of the Christian faith is Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura .
To our Catholic friends, I would say that I can understand how you might be uncomfortable in a church that is so different from what you are used to. However, I would also remind you that the choice of churches is not limited to either a Catholic or a Baptist church. For instance, if you are really uncomfortable in a Baptist church, before returning to Catholicism I would suggest that you might find familiarity in a Biblically sound fellowship like the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (indeed, many Lutherans call themselves "evangelical Catholics"). Baptists may differ from Lutherans on some points, but in the crucial issues regarding salvation and the Word of God the Missouri Synod Lutherans are sound.
Solemness
I feel sorry to comment on your points straightforwardly.
If you point out the solemness or seriousness from the formality or from the rituals in RC, I want to ask you whether you checked the contents of the messages, sermons at the Mass.
Have you ever discerned the teachings at the Mass carefully?
On TV I notice everyday the Catholic Mass but always notice the Catholic priests repeat the pleading to God for the forgiveness of sins, then never bring the Good News that all the sins were already forgiven at the Cross. They repeat the mock-sacrifice of the sacrifice which was finished at the Cross. They never explain how their prayer request for the forgiveness of sins was answered by God. They lift up the cookies and wines then suddenly after prayer declare they were changed to Flesh and Blood.
Any pagan priests can look very serious and holy but that is a human judgment. If they believe and declare all the sins were forgiven at the Cross once for All, they would not perform the same sacrifice next week because all the sins were already forgiven. What they could would be " Lord help us to realize and believe that even these newly committed sins were included in the forgiveness granted at the Cross.
Throughout the Masses, I have never heard the Gospel that all the sins were already forgiven at the Cross, which is extremely sad.
I wonder whether you have seriously taken the fundamental problems with RC. Do you know that Idol Worship alone disqualifies anyone from inheritting the Kingdom of God? Read 1 Cor 6:9, Read Rev 22:15
Idolaters cannot enter Kingdom of God ! and Catholics commit this sin excusing with all the excuses by human logic!
Have you ever been serious and solemly thought about these grievous commandments?
Yes, human races are wicked and sinful and paganism is everywhere in the world, and the Idolatery of RC is quite well accepted by any pagan people, but the True Christianity condemn various paganism harshly and therefore I notice RC is quite well, universally accepted by the pagan world. The main point is whether they are pleasing God or not.
Is Idolatery a small thing?
Rooselk said:
I feel sorry to comment on your points straightforwardly.
If you point out the solemness or seriousness from the formality or from the rituals in RC, I want to ask you whether you checked the contents of the messages, sermons at the Mass.
Have you ever discerned the teachings at the Mass carefully?
On TV I notice everyday the Catholic Mass but always notice the Catholic priests repeat the pleading to God for the forgiveness of sins, then never bring the Good News that all the sins were already forgiven at the Cross. They repeat the mock-sacrifice of the sacrifice which was finished at the Cross. They never explain how their prayer request for the forgiveness of sins was answered by God. They lift up the cookies and wines then suddenly after prayer declare they were changed to Flesh and Blood.
Any pagan priests can look very serious and holy but that is a human judgment. If they believe and declare all the sins were forgiven at the Cross once for All, they would not perform the same sacrifice next week because all the sins were already forgiven. What they could would be " Lord help us to realize and believe that even these newly committed sins were included in the forgiveness granted at the Cross.
Throughout the Masses, I have never heard the Gospel that all the sins were already forgiven at the Cross, which is extremely sad.
I wonder whether you have seriously taken the fundamental problems with RC. Do you know that Idol Worship alone disqualifies anyone from inheritting the Kingdom of God? Read 1 Cor 6:9, Read Rev 22:15
Idolaters cannot enter Kingdom of God ! and Catholics commit this sin excusing with all the excuses by human logic!
Have you ever been serious and solemly thought about these grievous commandments?
Yes, human races are wicked and sinful and paganism is everywhere in the world, and the Idolatery of RC is quite well accepted by any pagan people, but the True Christianity condemn various paganism harshly and therefore I notice RC is quite well, universally accepted by the pagan world. The main point is whether they are pleasing God or not.
Is Idolatery a small thing?
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Eliyahua, let me assure you that I agree with you on nearly every point. Also, be assured that as a former Catholic I have indeed considered Roman Catholic doctrine and the meaning of the mass - and I reject them. That is why, without naming specifics, I wrote in my post that, "Catholicism has some very serious theological problems and practices that we Protestants rightly criticise and even abhor." If I still held to those things I would have remained in the Catholic church.
As I said in my post, with other Christians I hold to the truths that sinners are justified with God by grace alone (sola gratia), through faith alone (sola fide), on the basis of Scripture alone (sola scriptura). Roman Catholicism rejects these truths. When I say that there is a "sense solemness and dignity" in the Catholic mass, it is not the same thing as endorsing the mass. If I was somehow misunderstood as defending Roman Catholic doctrine, let me assure you that was not my intent.
Thank you for your comments.
As I said in my post, with other Christians I hold to the truths that sinners are justified with God by grace alone (sola gratia), through faith alone (sola fide), on the basis of Scripture alone (sola scriptura). Roman Catholicism rejects these truths. When I say that there is a "sense solemness and dignity" in the Catholic mass, it is not the same thing as endorsing the mass. If I was somehow misunderstood as defending Roman Catholic doctrine, let me assure you that was not my intent.
Thank you for your comments.
FollowMeHome
New Member
What's the purpose of posting a topic about Catholics when they are not allowed on this forum?
FollowMeHome said:
There are a few RCs on the Baptist Board but it requires a lot of restraint on our part when some very offensive posts are made which I suspect are designed to inflame the passion and fire off a response in the heat of the moment with sad consequences for the poster.
The BB is a great site and for me personally because it challenges me to investigate Faith questions I take for granted.It is an eye opener in that these threads are so popular.:type:
same
Briony-Gloriana,
Do you actually believe that anyone on these boards would actually compose a post for the explicit reason of "inflaming the passion" of Catholics in order to cause Catholics to be banned???
I know that in my case that thought has never crossed my mind and it is unimaginable to me that anyone on these boards would post with such ridiculous and infantile motivations.
What a crazy thing to post on a site mostly used by adults.
Sadly,
Mike
Briony-Gloriana,
Do you actually believe that anyone on these boards would actually compose a post for the explicit reason of "inflaming the passion" of Catholics in order to cause Catholics to be banned???
I know that in my case that thought has never crossed my mind and it is unimaginable to me that anyone on these boards would post with such ridiculous and infantile motivations.
What a crazy thing to post on a site mostly used by adults.
Sadly,
Mike
Charles Meadows
New Member
There have been plenty of mean remarks about catholics here. Some baptists unfortunately think that how one holds church is more important than belief in Christ.
Briony didn't say that the remarks were designed to get catholics banned but rather that catholics who responded to such posts with equal sharpness got banned.
Briony didn't say that the remarks were designed to get catholics banned but rather that catholics who responded to such posts with equal sharpness got banned.
Well look, on another chat board I go to, there is a Catholic man who had been coming there to post things and he had left there. He told me that he left because everyone only saw him as a Catholic and so he couldnt discuss anything. IM the one who wrote and got him to come back and am trying to get a discussion going with him and others. He wanted to start a discussion on one of the books of the Bible.
I am the only one there who is trying to cooperate with him. Everyone else is ignoring him. This is a chat room where everyone has different denominational beliefs.
So if you've got this idea Im trying to get Catholics banned, you are way off the mark with that... at least when it comes to me-- I cant speak for anyone else here.
I regard people's beliefs as separate from the person themselves. I have nothing against Catholics as human beings. Used to be one myself.
They had a thread here recently called Seventh Day Adventist Hypocrisy and Im a Seventh Day Adventist. So its not like everyone is "out to get the Catholics" ... I have to put up with a whole lot of garbage myself, being that Im an SDA.
Claudia
I am the only one there who is trying to cooperate with him. Everyone else is ignoring him. This is a chat room where everyone has different denominational beliefs.
So if you've got this idea Im trying to get Catholics banned, you are way off the mark with that... at least when it comes to me-- I cant speak for anyone else here.
I regard people's beliefs as separate from the person themselves. I have nothing against Catholics as human beings. Used to be one myself.
They had a thread here recently called Seventh Day Adventist Hypocrisy and Im a Seventh Day Adventist. So its not like everyone is "out to get the Catholics" ... I have to put up with a whole lot of garbage myself, being that Im an SDA.
Claudia