Roman Road and Sinner's Prayer

[Tom Butler]

I was trained to use the Roman Road in soul-winning. And I was schooled to "draw the net" with the Sinner's Prayer. I since have modified my commentary that I used to use with the RR, and have abandoned the Sinner's Prayer.

Although I recognize that both are widely used among Baptists and other evangelicals, I fear that they have contributed to man-centered witnessing in many cases. And at worst, it has been come a "sales pitch" followed by "closing the sale."

So, out of my curiousity, how many of you on the BB still use RR and SP, and how many of you no longer do so?

Those of you who switched, or never did use the method, why so?

Those of you who still rely on RR and SP, I'd appreciate your rationale as well.

 

[webdog]

The Roman Road can be construed as context lifting of passages to support what you are trying to say. I have no problem with the sinners prayer, as long as it's not a "repeat after me" wedding vow type thing.

I think the most effective way to evangelize is the Way of the Master method Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron use. This is personal, and hits home for everybody.

 

[Brian30755]

I agree with Webdog. I don't think a sinners prayer should be a "repeat after me" type of thing.

Once a person realizes they are a sinner, you can point them to Psalm 51, and tell them they can pray something similar to David's prayer.

I think it's Ray Comfort that used this analogy: If a husband has cheated on his wife, and she is willing to forgive him, you don't have to tell him word-for-word what to say. What she really wants to hear is an apology that comes from his heart, and a promise that he won't do it again.

There's nothing wrong with using the Romans Road, as long as you go into a little more detail when you get to Romans 3:23, and use the 10 Commandments to help them understand why "all have sinned".

 

[USN2Pulpit]

I once heard Voddie Bauchman's testimony...it concluded in great thanks that those witnessing to him had not "taken his prayer from him" by leading him in a "repeat-after-me" prayer. Instead, he had a very real moment with God - not really knowing "how" to pray a religious prayer...using his own words, and was saved.

We just need to put the good news out there. IMHO, "1-2-3, repeat after me" can be dangerous. Many people who do this may think they're out of danger, having never had a deep-down, heart-changing moment with God.

This may bear the most truth with church kids...who are simply making their parents happy many times. How many of them are saved? We can never know. But some of them simply aren't.

 

[tinytim]

I agree with Webdog. I don't think a sinners prayer should be a "repeat after me" type of thing.

Once a person realizes they are a sinner, you can point them to Psalm 51, and tell them they can pray something similar to David's prayer.

I think it's Ray Comfort that used this analogy: If a husband has cheated on his wife, and she is willing to forgive him, you don't have to tell him word-for-word what to say. What she really wants to hear is an apology that comes from his heart, and a promise that he won't do it again.

There's nothing wrong with using the Romans Road, as long as you go into a little more detail when you get to Romans 3:23, and use the 10 Commandments to help them understand why "all have sinned".

I use the WOTM and then switch to RR after they realize they need Christ. Once they come to the point that they will verbally acknowledge they want to accept Christ as Savior.. I do ask if they would like for me to help them pray.... Of course they say yes. I then explain to them that the prayer doesn't save them, Jesus does. And that prayer is a way for them to tell Jesus what is on their heart.

I them do one of 2 things.. I may do a repeat after me.... or I may pray outloud with them.. It depends on how the Spirit is leading me. Then right after i say the infamous words, "In Jesus name I Pray..." i say, "and if you, (their name) agree with what I prayed with all your heart, say amen."

At what point are they saved? I'd say when they verbally acknowledge they want to accept Christ as Savior.... I think the prayer is the first communication to their Heavenly Father after they are saved.

 

[LeBuick]

At what point are they saved? I'd say when they verbally acknowledge they want to accept Christ as Savior.... I think the prayer is the first communication to their Heavenly Father after they are saved.

I have never counted any of this even through the ritual of baptism as a point of salvation. I believed this all to be the start of the seeking process, however, I don't believe they have always truly found a savior. I draw this conclusion based primarily on my definition of "believeth" and "faith".

I have seen to many get past this point, begin faithfully in Church 1, 2 or 5 years then slip back into the world. This is the stage also when they will lean back on their own understanding when the storms come. If they were a drunkard and a setback comes, they tend to fall back on the bottle. If they were a klepto and times get rough, they may fall back on past understandings just to get them over the hump. This is when the Church needs to keep them in the center of fellowship (not standing on the outer circle, but pretected within the circle) and constantly be by their side. These are vunerible sheep.

I believe salvation comes when one finally let's go of the world and completely surrender's to the will of GOD. I listen carefully to testimonies (be it verbal or their living testimony). Not everyone has the on their knees with sob coming from their nose prayer experience but there is a point, I don't know when it is, but there is an encounter when a is indwelt with the holy spirit. Then and only then do I believe we are saved.

Jesus said, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

 

[Hope of Glory]

I was raised using it, but quit after discovering some potholes in that road.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Will somebody tell me what Jesus Christ did on the cross ? Please ?
Why do we talk as if His death and Resurrection accomplished nothing unless we are involved ?

I heard a radio preacher with quaking voice pray: Lord, forgive us for being so negligent in getting people saved, for allowing millions of souls to go to hell everyday.

Do you all in your heart of hearts agree with that prayer ?

 

[tinytim]

I'm not sure what you are asking..

In your opinion, what is our responsibility?

 

[LeBuick]

To a degree I agree, someone needs to extend the right hand of fellowship and tell the lost about our savior.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Well, your posts seem to indicate that apart from the finished work of Christ, there is the necessity of such formulas as WOTM or RR or whatever else man can come up, in order for the work of Christ to really take effect and save somebody.
For example, you, tinytim, ask, "at what point are they saved" ? You answer your own question with, "..when they verbally acknowledge they want to accept Christ as Savior", and may I add, thanks to the faithful witnessing of somebody.
Excuse me ?
Where in the Bible does it say that someone gets saved because man faithfully witnessed to another ? And reconcile that with the Old Testament, please. I mean, that says that all men were damned to hell, except those who were in select parts of the Middle East !

LeBuick talks of "the lost".
What lost ?
There are no more lost souls, unless God is not God, and Christ is not Savior, and both Christ and God failed to carry out what they purposed to do from eternity past, and the blood of Christ has not been shed, and the writer of Hebrews was on drugs or alcohol when he wrote that Christ entered into the heavens bearing His own blood for the eternal redemption of "us all".
You did not see the blasphemy of the preacher's prayer ? I guess one shouldn't wonder.

 

[Brian30755]

Pinoy, am I understanding you correctly? You are saying that EVERYONE is already saved and going to heaven?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Pinoy, am I understanding you correctly? You are saying that EVERYONE is already saved and going to heaven?

No. That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that the Bible specifically states that the reason the baby's name was to be Jesus is because he shall save his people from their sins (Matthew 1:21), and that is exactly why his name is above all names because he did what the Father wanted him to do, save his people, not mankind.
The language of the writer of Hebrews is unmistakable. The task is done, finished, which is why he now sits at the right hand of God.

No one is saved at the point of realizing or acknowledging that he is a sinner. One acknowledges that fact because one is born of God already, no thanks to the witness, no thanks to the preacher, no thanks to the Roman Road, no thanks to the Way of the Master, no thanks to anyone but God.

The preacher's quaking voiced prayer is blasphemy because in effect what he is saying is that Christ's death meant nothing to anyone because people are still going to hell !

I was Arminian once, but even then I stopped the altar call and simply replace it with, "if the Spirit has convicted you, remember that the Bible says "....The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach", or words similar to that.

Why ?

Because it is sickening how "soul winning" is sometimes presented in "seminars" as a marketing strategy. One soul "saved", witnesses to another, that soul gets "saved", now there are two witnesses, which multiplies to four, which becomes eight, which becomes sixteen, which becomes thirty-two, and so on, and "imagine how we can win the world for Christ" if only we had the zeal ?

The glory is stolen from God !

Salvation is OF the Lord !

 

[Brian30755]

Because it is sickening how "soul winning" is sometimes presented in "seminars" as a marketing strategy. One soul "saved", witnesses to another, that soul gets "saved", now there are two witnesses, which multiplies to four, which becomes eight, which becomes sixteen, which becomes thirty-two, and so on, and "imagine how we can win the world for Christ" if only we had the zeal ?

The glory is stolen from God !

Salvation is OF the Lord !

I understand what you're saying here. But what do you think our role is? Should we evangelize, or shouldn't we? Because if I understand you correctly, it doesn't make any difference if we do or if we don't.

 

[Jarthur001]

Pinoy, am I understanding you correctly? You are saying that EVERYONE is already saved and going to heaven?

Much to be said and I only have a short time before church. I'll give my overview of the OP.

RR is ok...maybe not the best.
I don't care at all for the SP..so to speak.

This is my feeling. As I tell each new family having kids...get all the good books on bring up Godly Kids out there. I tell them of a few and also tell them to look for more. Read them. Then carfully put up on the shelf. You can not raise a kid with a text book!!! Get in the Word every day and pray..pray..pray...always PRAY...not just a time where you close your eyes in the morning and say.."watch over my kids today"...all day long ...while at lunch..while driving(eyes open)...while doing house work...while at work...when you wake at night on those sleepless nights..PRAY PRAY PRAY. Not just for your kids..but never stop praying..and this includes your kids. Then..as you talk with them...share what God has DONE in your life. Kids want to hear this..and need to here this. Share what you have prayed for this week. Share Gods Word. If they are small....READ Gods word to them...the same passage as what God shared with you...and then tell them in child like words what it meant to YOU. Kids need to hear this. When you do this...things come back from those books you read and placed on the shelf. Good points...how to handly a bad moment...and this will help.

Now as to sharing to the "world"..the same thing will go. Read and understand all plans (RR and what have you) that you can. But more then anything know your GOD!! Get into the Word..everyday!! There are 3 things a person must understand before salvation comes.

1) The fact..there is a God.

If you do not believe this, how can one be saved? One does not have to know all about God, but God must be real and viewed as in full control..(nothing to do with c/a here) and holy hating sin. You cannot over state this...The bigger your God the better.

2) God the judge...

God will someday set and judge ever person for sins. God is holy(point one)...and HATES sin. We all have sinned. I have sinned..you have sinned..all of us have sinned. Sin brings death!! If God sees that you have sinned when He judges...He will bring death on you!! Hell

3) God the redeemer...

Christ came to save sinners. How are we saved? Believeing Christ blood took away all sins on the cross..and then placing all your faith, and hope in him to save you from your sins and repenting from a life of sin. Repent...we onced did not care if we sin toward God...now we have changed to follow him.

With these 3 ponits in your mind..as you read Gods word..verses will pop out that falls in one of each ponit. Remeber them!!! As you share...share what God has DONE in your life..THAT DAY...not some..."oh God is so good and has made my life better"...give details. Talk about praying for a parking space...and GOD giving it to you. Share how God has talked to you..in His Word. If that morning you read a good verse that had a "God the redeemer" verse in it...with excitment..share how God talked to you though that verse..and include...after all...(back to point 1)...and (point 2)..sharing verses on point 1 and 2. This makes salvation real. You sharing what happened TODAY. You only pull in the other verse to show why it excited you. Salvation is a plan..but it is not our plan..its Gods plan. We can not "close the deal". We are only told to share. It is God that works.

RR and other of mans plans are ok...but is not real and becomes a step by step for us to WIN others. We win no one. We share..and God chooses. But know RR and other plans can help when THEY are pulled in by the Holy Spirit.

As in bringing up your kids...to PRAY all day is number 1!!! If you pray for them...tell them!! They need to know you care. Tell them you prayed for them to be safe on a trip. Tell them you prayed they would do well in a game they played in. In time..they will come to you when a HARD time comes. And cry with you...and ask you to pray. This happens 100% of the time!! Because YOU care. Because you know God and have shown in the past, you know God..and they need God. This is when your need more then the RR. You need all the verse you can find..about God the Redeemer..for He cares too.

Bringing up kids does not work like a text book...nor does sharing Gods love. Make it real..and they will have a real God. You job is to share..tis Gods job to save.


In Christ...James

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

I was trained to use the Roman Road in soul-winning. And I was schooled to "draw the net" with the Sinner's Prayer. I since have modified my commentary that I used to use with the RR, and have abandoned the Sinner's Prayer....
Those of you who switched, or never did use the method, why so?
.

just dropping by this interesting topic, i'm one of those who've switched.

1. Paul didn't use the RR--in fact, he never used the Scriptures (by quoting them) when speaking to people in the category, "non-Christian, non-Jewish," which is most of where our evangelism takes place nowadays. in Acts 14 n 17, he tells them of the common Creator God, who's also the Master n Sustainer of all things, n who will judge the world thru the Man he's appointed, giving proof of all of the above by raising that Judge fr the dead. instead of quoting Moses, he quotes some secular philosopher. point is, he didn't assume a common basis of authority in the scriptures. that wld come later, but not immediately--as taking them thru the Torah or RR wld assume.

2. the Gt Commission doesn't endorse the "Sinner's Prayer." what does it institute as the initiatory rite to discipleship n lifelong learning of obedience to Christ's teachings but baptism in the name of the Father, Son, n Holy Spirit? but no, we've (most churches) substituted that with the SP, then inverted the order of baptism n learning to obey Christ, putting in a suitably long series of catechism class n probationary period n all. o, plenty of good reasons for sure, but anything but ...

but that's my 2cents.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I understand what you're saying here. But what do you think our role is? Should we evangelize, or shouldn't we? Because if I understand you correctly, it doesn't make any difference if we do or if we don't.

I never said that the gospel ought not be preached, neither will I say that at anytime.
The gospel is to be preached.
Those who are in the ministry are under obligation to do so.
But it must be preached with the glory of God central to the purpose, with salvation as a FINISHED fact for those who are God's. It must be preached according to the purpose for which it was designed: to make disciples, that is to teach those whom God calls out into an assembly of believers how to live and walk the "narrow way".
I believe that the test for those in the ministry is not how many were "saved" under their ministry, more than how many were edified and taught correct doctrine.
Sure we ought to speak of Christ to as many as will lend their ears, but they have to be made to understand that the decision is not up to them. It never was, and never will be.

 

[pinoybaptist]

1. Paul didn't use the RR--in fact, he never used the Scriptures (by quoting them) when speaking to people in the category, "non-Christian, non-Jewish," which is most of where our evangelism takes place nowadays.

With all due respects, I do not think Paul was even concerned about the eternal aspect of salvation.
As far as he is concerned, that is a done deal for all of God's people, all over the earth and in all ages.
Jesus Christ is Lord, Savior, Redeemer, in deed and in fact, as far as Paul was concerned.
As I read the epistles, I am convinced that Paul's chief concern was salvation of God's people from wrong and ungodly doctrines and practices here on earth.

 

[LeBuick]

With all due respects, I do not think Paul was even concerned about the eternal aspect of salvation.
As far as he is concerned, that is a done deal for all of God's people, all over the earth and in all ages.
Jesus Christ is Lord, Savior, Redeemer, in deed and in fact, as far as Paul was concerned.
As I read the epistles, I am convinced that Paul's chief concern was salvation of God's people from wrong and ungodly doctrines and practices here on earth.

So back to the previously asked question, "Pinoy, am I understanding you correctly? You are saying that EVERYONE is already saved and going to heaven?" Also, who will be the ones being cast in the lake of fire? In the parable of the rich man and the beggar, why were they in different places?

 

[pinoybaptist]

So back to the previously asked question, "Pinoy, am I understanding you correctly? You are saying that EVERYONE is already saved and going to heaven?" Also, who will be the ones being cast in the lake of fire? In the parable of the rich man and the beggar, why were they in different places?

No, I am not saying everyone is saved already and going to heaven. I am saying that there is just no way any of God's elect born after the cross
can be called lost anymore since the Shepherd of their souls have accounted for each and everyone of them already. Each and everyone will be quickened by the Spirit, brought to faith in God by the Spirit's voice and not by a human voice, kept and preserved in Christ all the way to glory.

To answer your second question, those who are being cast in the lake of fire are the unelect, whose names were not written in the Lamb's Book of Life from before the foundation of the world, and who will wonder after the beast precisely because their names are not written in the Book of Life and so they are not preserved in Christ Jesus. (Bold for emphasis, not to yell :smilewinkgrin: ).

Read all of Paul's letter and see for yourself. If he showed any concern at all for one's eternal destiny, it is that the Christians he wrote to 'Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?'.

I havenot read where Paul told the church to go 'soul winning', in obedience to the "great commission".

But I might have missed it.

If you know where it is, please show me.