BubbaScott
New Member
Anyone have a good study guide on the Roman Road? Mom was talking about it, but I had a hard time following her.
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Roman Road
- Thread starter BubbaScott
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BubbaScott said:
Bubba,
The Roman's Road is a Bible tract using the book of Romans exclusively to show our need for salvation. It is a VERY good presentation beginning with the assumption that EVERYONE thinks they are good enough and deserve salvation.
But Rom 3:10 says "There is NONE righteous, no, not one."
Rom 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
Sin came on account of Adam's fall, Rom 5:12 "by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Sin is a "fact of life!!"
What does that mean to me? Rom 6:23 "...the wages of sin is death;..."
Whoa! Our "natural" destiny is DEATH?" Yes! "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Rom 5:8
What can we do about it if Christ did, indeed, die for us?? Rom 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Rom 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Do you see the Roman's Road to salvation? Do you understand it now? Do you believe the assertions of the Roman Road? Have you received Christ in the Rom 10:9-10 way? By praying to receive Christ because you believe in your heart that He died for you?
Read 1Cor 15:1-4 which is, to me, a better, shorter gospel message:
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for OUR sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures..."
skypair
Tom Butler
New Member
The Scriptures in the Roman Road are good ones. The problem is that it has been somewhat corrupted into a sales pitch, with Romans 10:13 misused to justify the Sinner's Prayer, which has been converted into some magic words, the saying of which guarantees salvation.
Let me explain: Romans 10:9-10 says one shall be saved who confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in his resurrection. Why don't we just stop there? Why don't we ask, "do you believe this? Do you want to confess Jesus as Lord? Do you believe that he rose from the dead?" Verse 10 says unequivocally, believe in your heart, confess with your mouth.
Well, we don't stop there. We skip up to v. 13 and add something else. We say, you have to call on the Lord and ask him to save you. Even that might be okay if we'd just shut up and wait. Be we can't. So we devise a sinner's prayer, make up one, actually tell the lost person what to say. Sometimes, even that's not enough. We help them out, "repeat after me." Magic words, you said 'em, you're saved.
Another problem. v 13 doesn't say call on the Lord ask ask him to save you. It says call on the "Name" of the Lord. That name is Jesus. So v. 13 is closely tied to vv 9-10-11-12.
Is v. 9 not sufficient? If not, why not? Are there two ways to salvation, v. 9 and v. 13?
You want to see this corruption in action. Watch Joel Osteen's telecast, where, almost as an afterthought at the end, skips all the setup and goes straight for the quick sale: "Just pray this prayer." At the end, "if you prayed this prayer, you're saved."
Can you see why I cringe when I hear this stuff? We have filled our churches with people whose only hope of heaven is a few words said out loud.
Let me explain: Romans 10:9-10 says one shall be saved who confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in his resurrection. Why don't we just stop there? Why don't we ask, "do you believe this? Do you want to confess Jesus as Lord? Do you believe that he rose from the dead?" Verse 10 says unequivocally, believe in your heart, confess with your mouth.
Well, we don't stop there. We skip up to v. 13 and add something else. We say, you have to call on the Lord and ask him to save you. Even that might be okay if we'd just shut up and wait. Be we can't. So we devise a sinner's prayer, make up one, actually tell the lost person what to say. Sometimes, even that's not enough. We help them out, "repeat after me." Magic words, you said 'em, you're saved.
Another problem. v 13 doesn't say call on the Lord ask ask him to save you. It says call on the "Name" of the Lord. That name is Jesus. So v. 13 is closely tied to vv 9-10-11-12.
Is v. 9 not sufficient? If not, why not? Are there two ways to salvation, v. 9 and v. 13?
You want to see this corruption in action. Watch Joel Osteen's telecast, where, almost as an afterthought at the end, skips all the setup and goes straight for the quick sale: "Just pray this prayer." At the end, "if you prayed this prayer, you're saved."
Can you see why I cringe when I hear this stuff? We have filled our churches with people whose only hope of heaven is a few words said out loud.
Tom Butler said:
Tom,
I do understand your frustration. As with anything the R.R. can be misused. Usually by fairly new converts trying to get out there and spread the word. I had a brother that used it exclusively and bragged on how many he led to Christ. He would spend about 5 minutes with someone, carve a notch in his belt and move on.
That doesn't make it a bad tool for those that know how to prayerfully use it. We have to realize the great responsibility we have when presenting the gospel. It is the Holy Spirit that actually saves but God uses men to present His word. We must be prayed up and in the spirit. If we flippantly go out and just say the words we may not see many real conversions. If some are saved all we are doing is leaving babies on the door step. It is OUR responsibility to nurture and disciple the individual. To get them to church and get them grounded in the faith.
Due to the misuse of the R.R. we have alot of churchless converts out there. They are like feral children. They grow up weak, sickly and half starved. It is not only our job to present the words. It os our hob to be Christ like and FEED the multitude.
Bubba,
Obviously the caveats that Tom and soulman offer should be considered. It's not the mouth that "seals the deal" but the heart. If the heart believes, then saying the prayer basically commits the faith to action. Few people will act on something they don't believe.
skypair
Obviously the caveats that Tom and soulman offer should be considered. It's not the mouth that "seals the deal" but the heart. If the heart believes, then saying the prayer basically commits the faith to action. Few people will act on something they don't believe.
skypair
Hi Soulman
Amen to the feeding of new converts.
MB
I've been a Christian most of my life and I cannot honestly claim one soul that I have led to Christ. This isn't to say none were led to Christ. It's just that if they were led to Him through me, I had very little to do with it. Just as in my own Salvation I have nothing to boast about. If any were saved, because of what they might have heard from me. Praise God for it, not me. I can do nothing with out Him on my own. So if anything is done it's Him that does it.Soulman said:
Amen to the feeding of new converts.
MB
Tom Butler
New Member
skypair said:
Actually, I think the prayer is unnecessary. In fact, i think the confession with the mouth in v 9 could very well be the calling on the name of the Lord in v 13.
If you read v. 9 carefully, it does not require one to ask God to save him. It says believe and confess. That's it, period.
Tom Butler
New Member
Soulman said:
Agreed. But the misuse is rampant. The bright side is that many pastors, whose church rolls are filled with people they never see, are wondering if that misuse contributed to the bloated rolls. And they're re-thinking the method by which they teach soul-winning.
Why are we so afraid to present the gospel to a lost person, ask for the commitment and just shut up?
Last edited by a moderator:
GordonSlocum
New Member
My take on salvation. My personal experience. When I received Christ for REAL. I was converted, regenerated, given new life. I knew it. My desires were changed. I then had a desire to Read God's Word. I could not read it enough.
So in my thinking if a person does not know if they are regenerated and given new life and have experience the life changing that goes on from the conversion - well what can I say. You know the oldie goldie song, "And I wonder" Something like that.
So I wonder. The Scripture tells us we are new creatures old things have passed all things are new.
Rest my case .
So in my thinking if a person does not know if they are regenerated and given new life and have experience the life changing that goes on from the conversion - well what can I say. You know the oldie goldie song, "And I wonder" Something like that.
So I wonder. The Scripture tells us we are new creatures old things have passed all things are new.
Rest my case .
Tom Butler
New Member
And a very good case you make, Gordon.
I know a couple of young women who are not regular in church, and haven't been since their early teens. When asked what their hope of heaven is based on, this was their reply.
"Well, I said the prayer."
Someone will say, "well, we need to do better followup." Don't disagree.
Proper discipling is very important. But I'm with Gordon. Salvation produces a transformation of desires. It produces a love for God, a love for the Savior, a love for his people and a love for the Scriptures. I've never understand having to beg professing Christians to come to church.
I heard revival preacher ask one time, "If you were on trial for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?"
I know a couple of young women who are not regular in church, and haven't been since their early teens. When asked what their hope of heaven is based on, this was their reply.
"Well, I said the prayer."
Someone will say, "well, we need to do better followup." Don't disagree.
Proper discipling is very important. But I'm with Gordon. Salvation produces a transformation of desires. It produces a love for God, a love for the Savior, a love for his people and a love for the Scriptures. I've never understand having to beg professing Christians to come to church.
I heard revival preacher ask one time, "If you were on trial for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?"
The problem is we can't rely on "personal" experience. We have far too many Christians that let "personal" experience trump what Scripture actually says.
Scripture says that if a person believes they are saved. Regardless of whether their "experience" is anything like yours or not.
I wouldn't call it a transformation of desires, because your old man is not done away with. And the old man still desires to sin. There is not a transformation, but an addition of the Holy Spirit that communes with your spirit and there is where the battle rages between doing what will produce gold, silver and precious stones and what will produce wood, hay and stubble.
It does not automatically produce a love for God, a love for the Savior and/or a love for His people and/or a love for the Scriptures. Those are all things that should be learned along your discipleship path, but unfortunately not all believers become disiciples.
Again just because something can not be understood doesn't mean someone is unsaved.
Tom Butler said:
Tom,
Well put. Acts 19:1-8 -- interesting corollary. Some of John the Baptist's disciples were converted. What was it they did? They were "baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." The point is DO something! It's no secret, right? It's a PUBLIC profession that "seals the deal" so far as the "memory" is concerned (1Cor 15:2 - "By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you,..."
God love ya, Tom. You're right!
skypair
Tom Butler said:
Tom,
Again, I'm with you foursquare!!
But it is not as if the prayer isn't enough, is it? The prayer in earnest saves just as much as what you or Gordon experienced! It all depends on the heart, right? You wouldn't put yourself in the place of God and say that praying to receive Christ wasn't enough, would you?skypair
Tom Butler
New Member
skypair said:Whoa, whoa, whoa!!
skypair
Skypair, I don't understand this. First, I agree with Allan on one of his posts, now we're agreeing with each other. What happened?
Seriously, I can live with the idea of a prayer to God which contains a confession of sin, a desire to repent, and a statement of trust in Christ as Lord. I don't think it has to be in the form of asking, but confessing, as in Roman 10:9