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Romans 10:13, who is it for?
- Thread starter Accountable
- Start date
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Mr.M said:
May I try to explain? "DoG" people also believe that whoever believes (on the Lord Jesus Christ) will be saved. We do not go around in our preaching or witnessing telling people that they can be saved if they are of the elect, but that they will be saved if they believe.
But we also believe passages like Ephesians 2, and John 10.26-29:
26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
Jesus did not say, "You are not of My sheep because you do not believe", but "You do not believe because you are not of My sheep." And "His sheep" are those whom the Father has given Him.
So when a sinner believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, he shows that he is one of Christ's sheep.
In closing, may I assure you that although I am not always as clear with my words as I should be, I do not "play games" with them. I am sorry if I gave you that impression.
This is a misconception or a half truth at best. Why? Because it is possible to "believe in vain," 1Cor 15:2.David Lamb said:
You "show" that you are His sheep by coming to Him -- receiving Him as "Shepherd," Lord and Savior. Too many presume or pretend they "hear" Him when they don't really. The height of this phenomena will be reached in the MK -- in His very presence! They will appear to obey with their flesh but won't with their hearts.
skypair
Accountable said:
I like that: what kind of salvation.
So far, almost all the replies seem to be saying it is the eternal kind of salvation, which it is not,but of course, at three pages long, I may have missed someone who gave the right answer.
Primitive Baptists call it timely salvation, and has to do with doctrinal salvation, deliverance from wrong doctrine, timely life salvation or deliverance from wrong living, it is the "save yourselves from this untoward generation" kind of salvation, the kind of salvation that one who is of God can only attain thru obedience, repentance, and faith in the Name and power of the Lord Jesus Christ.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
skypair said:
I don't think we are in disagreement that it is possible to "believe in vain" - to be a hypocrite. But in my previous message, I was talking about true belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Accountable said:
Let's say he is specifically speaking to the Jews, what difference does that make? I don't understand your point. You don't build or exclude a doctorine on one verse. The Bible must agree with itself or the one verse you feel doesn't agree with the rest is being interpreted wrong. Let's see if this concept is elsewhere in the book???
Mk 16:16*He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Jn 3:15*That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jn 3:16*For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jn 3:18*He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jn 3:36*He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Jn 5:24*Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jn 6:35*And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Jn 6:40*And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jn 6:47*Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Jn 7:38*He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Jn 11:25*Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jn 11:26*And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Jn 12:46*I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Jn 14:12*Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Ac 10:43*To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Ro 1:16*For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Ro 3:26*To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Ro 4:5*But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
1Pe 2:6*Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Jn 5:1*Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Lastly I ask you, you are not a Jew, are you saved? How?
Lacy Evans
New Member
LeBuick said:
Looks to me like . . . same way as if you are a jew.
Accountable
New Member
LeBuick said:
Are you ready? Here we go...........
You just agreed with me without even realizing it! EVERY verse you used uses the word BELIEVE not CALL!!!LeBuick said:
Thank you! Now we could deal with some of the verses you used and how it pertains to us but we will leave that for later.
You stated "[You don't build or exclude a doctorine on one verse./B]
I agree! The verses you use do not back up calling on the Lord. Contrary to this, they confirm what I have already said, it isn't calling but believing that is required.
2 Timothy2:1-4
New Member
Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved
The word call her means to call on God for help. Luke 18:9-14 is a good example of this:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
And this he said in speaking to the unsaved (unjustified) Pharisees. Believe, faith, call for help are all part of the same thing. Paul wrote that with the mouth "confession" is made unto salvation.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved
The word call her means to call on God for help. Luke 18:9-14 is a good example of this:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
And this he said in speaking to the unsaved (unjustified) Pharisees. Believe, faith, call for help are all part of the same thing. Paul wrote that with the mouth "confession" is made unto salvation.
Was that the purpose of this thread? If that be so then you have to consider the entire passage to draw understanding. One thing I noticed on this board, we seem to get a bit granular regarding one verse instead of considering the entire passage to include audience.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
He begins by saying there is no difference between Jew and Greek (or Gentile for that matter but he was in Rome). As Lacy put it, we are all saved the same way. What is that way, Faith. In this case, how does one demonstrate that faith, calling on the Lord.
Paul expounds on what call means by asking a profound question, "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed". I won't debate the chicken or the egg theory using call/faith/believe but he plainly says one will not call on one they don't believe. Calling is the action to belief (in this case).
17 sums it up better then I ever could, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Put that in the faith/belief thread... Now that's Gospel!
No matter how you slice it, you won't call if you don't have faith and if you do have faith you will call. There is no hair to split, it's all the same strand.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
He begins by saying there is no difference between Jew and Greek (or Gentile for that matter but he was in Rome). As Lacy put it, we are all saved the same way. What is that way, Faith. In this case, how does one demonstrate that faith, calling on the Lord.
Paul expounds on what call means by asking a profound question, "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed". I won't debate the chicken or the egg theory using call/faith/believe but he plainly says one will not call on one they don't believe. Calling is the action to belief (in this case).
17 sums it up better then I ever could, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Put that in the faith/belief thread... Now that's Gospel!
No matter how you slice it, you won't call if you don't have faith and if you do have faith you will call. There is no hair to split, it's all the same strand.
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Accountable
New Member
If you will look at the first few blogs, you will see that this has been dealt with.LeBuick said:
LeBuick said:
Actually it is by Grace. [B]Eph 2:8 [/B] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
I will gladlt deabate the chicken/egg theory.LeBuick said:
According to the scripture belief comes before calling. They cannot call on Him till they have belief. Calling, asking for safety, can and will only be done after one believes upon Christ as Saviour.
Again:
Why are they sent? So they can preach.
Why do they preach? So they can hear.
Why do they hear? So they can believe.
Now that they believe (are saved according to Paul to the Jailor and the entire book of John) they can call upon the Lord for salvation. The salvation you see is not eternal life. That was taken care of when they believed.