Romans 10:19, 11:11 Provoke to jealousy?

[kyredneck]

The obvious purpose of provoking those who were being hardened was that they might also be saved, as that is EXACTLY what Paul states in Rom. 11:14…

if by any means I may provoke to jealousy them that are my flesh, and may save some of them. Ro 11:14

I’ll paraphrase the verse the way I think you all take it to mean:

if by any means I may provoke to jealousy them that are my flesh, and cause some of them to go to heaven

He means it in the same sense as Acts 2:40:

And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.

Or Acts 3:23:

And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.

Or Rev 18:4:

Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:

It’s significant that the OP reference is from the Song of Moses.

 

[HisWitness]

Wrong. The Harlot,the unfaithful wife of Jehovah, Mystery Babylon, The Great City, is clearly identified in Rev 11:8:

And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. Rev 11:8

2 And he cried with a mighty voice, saying, Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, and is become a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird.
10 standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
16 saying, Woe, woe, the great city, she that was arrayed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stone and pearl!
18 and cried out as they looked upon the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like the great city?
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and mourning, saying, Woe, woe, the great city, wherein all that had their ships in the sea were made rich by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rec 18

34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Mt 23

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[HisWitness]

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

just as the High priest and his angels in the day of Christ had blinded the minds of those in that generation--so it is today--the Religious that hold to such false traditions are blinding minds of our generation and when some come to Christ they have all that false baggage added to them.

Thank God that he still opens eyes and grants understanding in TRUTH.

Men will still hold to their Futurist views until God shines his Light into the Hearts and souls of men--May God shine today in them:godisgood::

 

[Aaron]

This however KILLS the Calvinistic interpretation and understanding of Romans 9 where they presume the hardened ones are the non-elect reprobates predestined to hell. You can't have predetermined reprobates being provoked to jealousy and being saved and still be a Calvinist.

Gamaliel wasn't provoked to jealousy. And though Esau was jealous of Jacob, he wasn't elect.

There will be some in the crowd of those who are provoked who are also elect.

Puh-leeze.

 

[AresMan]

The obvious purpose of provoking those who were being hardened was that they might also be saved, as that is EXACTLY what Paul states in Rom. 11:14. This however KILLS the Calvinistic interpretation and understanding of Romans 9 where they presume the hardened ones are the non-elect reprobates predestined to hell. You can't have predetermined reprobates being provoked to jealousy and being saved and still be a Calvinist.

Oh, buh-ruther.

Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The partial blindness to Israel is also associated with the fact that the ones NOT blinded are God's elect that He has "reserved to myself."

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

According to the prophesy of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, "ALL shall know me from the least to the greatest of them." God also prophesied that He would use Israel (and specifically, the apostles) as a light to save the Gentiles. The partial blindness is the fulfillment of how God instituted the New Covenant: an elect remnant of national Israel with Gentiles grafted in. Jew and Gentile alike. The constitution of Israel now is a diaspora of believers, not a geopolitical entity of believers and unbelievers.

I don't see how anything in Romans 11 conflicts with Calvinism. On the contrary, it shows how God sovereignly fashioned Israel under the New Covenant with blindness and election.

 

[HisWitness]

Oh, buh-ruther.

Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The partial blindness to Israel is also associated with the fact that the ones NOT blinded are God's elect that He has "reserved to myself."

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

According to the prophesy of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, "ALL shall know me from the least to the greatest of them." God also prophesied that He would use Israel (and specifically, the apostles) as a light to save the Gentiles. The partial blindness is the fulfillment of how God instituted the New Covenant: an elect remnant of national Israel with Gentiles grafted in. Jew and Gentile alike. The constitution of Israel now is a diaspora of believers, not a geopolitical entity of believers and unbelievers.

I don't see how anything in Romans 11 conflicts with Calvinism. On the contrary, it shows how God sovereignly fashioned Israel under the New Covenant with blindness and election.

what do you suppose they were gonna be saved from ?
saved from the wrath of God---Right ??
what was the wrath of God that it was talkin g about in that day ??

Was it not the destruction of the city and temple of the Jews for their Unbelief ?? happened in ad 70
Those who believed escaped that wrath and they were told to Flee the city when they saw the city compassed about with armies-that the desolation was at hand that Daniel spoke about.

I do realize that their sins was forgiven also--maybe that's why the forgiven ones was to escape that wrath and the unbelievers would remain in their sins and pay for their sins in that wrath of God that over took them in that day ?? just some thoughts to think about