Romans 3:28 - What is Paul Denying?

[Dr. Walter]

Those in Romans 2:1-5 are GENERIC (uses the generic "anthropos" in the Greek text) whether Jew or Gentile who think they will escape the judgement of God because they are COMPARATIVELY better than those Paul just described in Romans 1:18-32. Those in Romans 2:17-24 is specific toward those who make it their boast they are COMPARATIVELY better than all other men.

Nowhere in Romans 2:6-11 does it say that there will be some SUCCESSFUL in being justified by works. Romans 2:5-11 simply sets forth the JUST standards and consequences without identifying anyone in specific who will be successful or who will fail to be justified by works simply because Paul wants all such BETTER THAN THOU persons to realize that God's standard of judgement will not be based upon COMPARATIVE standards but upon RIGHTEOUS (v. 5) standards that give favor to none but is the BLIND JUSTICE OF GOD'S RIGHTOUS LAW (vv. 11-13).

That same RIGHTEOUS standard of God's law (vv. 11-15) will also be manifested in the RIGHTEOUSNESS revealed in the gospel (Rom. 1:17; 2:16) which is not less than the righteousness of God.

As the old saying goes, you may compare yourself to your self and do better. You may compare yourself to others (Rom. 2:1-5; 17:24) and do better but when you compare yourself to God - woe is that man! That is why you need to receive the righteousness of God providely freely by His grace through faith in the propitiation of Christ (Rom. 3:24-26) and you will have God's promise that you "shall not come into condemnation [lit. judgement] but is PASSED from death TO LIFE" (Jn. 5:24b) already and thus have peace with God NOW based upon that completed standing (Rom. 5:1-2).

However, you reject the righteousness of God and justification by faith but seek to justification "according to YOUR deeds" as those who believe they are as good as Jesus and getting better every day. Regardless, if you like that analogy or not it is true of you and your theology and all who embrace it.

Again - not even close.

In Romans 1:18-32 Paul is himself condemning the lost world outside the Christian church and even in vs 28-32 argues that they know they are condemned and so also does the Church of Rome know that the lost world is condemned.

But in Romans 2:1-4 and 17-24 Paul writes to "you who call yourself a Jew" INSIDE the church of Rome (the lost Jew in the Christian Church of Rome) that "does the same thing" as those lost wicked people outside the church - people Paul himself has just condemned in 1:18-32.

Paul is clearly describing the Lost Christian Jew in the Church of Rome in Romans 2.

Rom 2
1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.
3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?


5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,


...
17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

 

[BobRyan]

Not generic here - Rather it is a clear case of the lost Jew in the Christian church of Rome being condmend for DOING the same thing as the lost Gentiles of Rom 1:18-32 are doing. Which is EXACTLY what is condemned in Romans 2:1.


17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.



This point is not nearlly as hard to see as you may have at first imagined.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Those in Romans 2:1-5 are GENERIC (uses the generic "anthropos" in the Greek text) whether Jew or Gentile who think they will escape the judgement of God because they are COMPARATIVELY better than those Paul just described in Romans 1:18-32. Those in Romans 2:17-24 is specific toward those who make it their boast they are COMPARATIVELY better than all other men.

Nowhere in Romans 2:6-11 does it say that there will be some SUCCESSFUL in being justified by works. Romans 2:5-11 simply sets forth the JUST standards and consequences without identifying anyone in specific who will be successful or who will fail to be justified by works simply because Paul wants all such BETTER THAN THOU persons to realize that God's standard of judgement will not be based upon COMPARATIVE standards but upon RIGHTEOUS (v. 5) standards that give favor to none but is the BLIND JUSTICE OF GOD'S RIGHTOUS LAW (vv. 11-13).

That same RIGHTEOUS standard of God's law (vv. 11-15) will also be manifested in the RIGHTEOUSNESS revealed in the gospel (Rom. 1:17; 2:16) which is not less than the righteousness of God.

As the old saying goes, you may compare yourself to your self and do better. You may compare yourself to others (Rom. 2:1-5; 17:24) and do better but when you compare yourself to God - woe is that man! That is why you need to receive the righteousness of God providely freely by His grace through faith in the propitiation of Christ (Rom. 3:24-26) and you will have God's promise that you "shall not come into condemnation [lit. judgement] but is PASSED from death TO LIFE" (Jn. 5:24b) already and thus have peace with God NOW based upon that completed standing (Rom. 5:1-2).

However, you reject the righteousness of God and justification by faith but seek to justification "according to YOUR deeds" as those who believe they are as good as Jesus and getting better every day. Regardless, if you like that analogy or not it is true of you and your theology and all who embrace it.

GE:
You don't need any witnesses, Dr Walter, the truth of what you are saying is its own witness. But if you asked for a witness, call me.

 

[BobRyan]

In Romans 1:18-32 Paul is himself condemning the lost world outside the Christian church and even in vs 28-32 argues that they know they are condemned and so also does the Church of Rome know that the lost world is condemned.

But in Romans 2:1-4 and 17-24 Paul writes to "you who call yourself a Jew" INSIDE the church of Rome (the lost Jew in the Christian Church of Rome) that "does the same thing" as those lost wicked people outside the church - people Paul himself has just condemned in 1:18-32.

Paul is clearly describing the Lost Christian Jew in the Church of Rome in Romans 2.

Rom 2
1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.
3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?

Those in Romans 2:1-5 are GENERIC (uses the generic "anthropos" in the Greek text) whether Jew or Gentile who think they will escape the judgement of God because they are COMPARATIVELY better

In Romans 2 Paul addresses the lost - inside the Church of Rome


5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

And in Romans 2 he is specifically speaking to the Jews that are lost in the church of Rome -

17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

So your argument is with the text.

Hint: it would not "help the lost" to simply stop condemning fellow lost people as you seem to imagine. They would still be lost.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Nowhere in Romans 2:6-11 does it say that there will be some SUCCESSFUL in being justified by works.

Romans 2:6-11 just as effectively condemns those who rebel against God (for real) as it does effectively affirmation the Gospel concept of "justification" for those who obey the Law of God.

7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.


11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

..
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Again it is shown - your argument is with the text itself.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Dr. Walter]

In Romans 1:18-32 Paul is himself condemning the lost world outside the Christian church and even in vs 28-32 argues that they know they are condemned and so also does the Church of Rome know that the lost world is condemned.

But in Romans 2:1-4 and 17-24 Paul writes to "you who call yourself a Jew" INSIDE the church of Rome (the lost Jew in the Christian Church of Rome) that "does the same thing" as those lost wicked people outside the church - people Paul himself has just condemned in 1:18-32.

Paul is clearly describing the Lost Christian Jew in the Church of Rome in Romans 2.

Rom 2
1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.
3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?




In Romans 2 Paul addresses the lost - inside the Church of Rome


5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

And in Romans 2 he is specifically speaking to the Jews that are lost in the church of Rome -

17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

So your argument is with the text.

Hint: it would not "help the lost" to simply stop condemning fellow lost people as you seem to imagine. They would still be lost.


in Christ,

Bob

You are simply twisting the text to please your own belly (desires). Romans 2:1-29 no more addresses members within the church at Rome than Romans 1:18-32 does. The members at Rome have already been addressed in Romans 1:7-9 in REDEMPTIVE terms.

All Paul does is apply it to anyone "O Man WHOSOEVER THOU ART" who fits the shoes of this description. He has already addressed the church members in Romans 1:7-9 by none of the terms in chapter 2. The "whosoever thou art" is equal to the "no flesh" and "the whole world" in Romans 3:19-20 who are OUTSIDE OF CHRIST attempting to be justified by their own works.

You quote Romans 2:6-8 but this text merely sets forth the RIGHTEOUS criteria and consequences for judgement under the righteous law of God. The Christian is exempted from this judgement according to Jesus in John 5:24and the lost man will not measure up to the criteria according to Paul in Romans 3:9-20.

The repeated "if" in Romans 3:25-27 demonstrates that Paul is merely setting forth more GENERAL criteria for anyone judged under law.

You have not provided one iota of evidence that Romans 2:6-8 is anymore than GENERAL criteria and consequences for ALL who will be judged UNDER LAW.