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Romans 8: After the Spirit

Alan Gross

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Guido said:
This suggests that works are a proof of salvation, a doctrine contrary to Free Grace.
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Matthew 7:16-20

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit;
but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit,
neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,
and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
 
M

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
God's people are elect from eternity but they are absolutely not justified from eternity.
Isaiah 12:1. 'And on that day you will say: " O LORD, I will praise You; though You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away and You comfort me.' 'That day' is the day of Christ (Isaiah 11:1, 10) but how can God be angry with those He has declared righteous?
Ephesians 2:3. '...We.....were by nature children of wrath.' How can we have been if we were declared righteous in eternity?
Titus 3:3-5. 'For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Saviour towards man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit whom He poured out upon us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, that having been justified by His grace, we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.' The kindness and love of God our Saviour 'appeared' - they were not from eternity - with Jesus Christ.

Justification is by grace, but it is also by faith (Romans 5:1.), and we did not believe in eternity, but when we heard the Gospel and God the Holy Spirit graciously applied it to our hearts.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
KenH said:
Yes, God's elect can be said to be justified from eternity. God is immutable.
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Amen, for that is what Romans 8:29-30 states...
Those that were foreknown were justified, reconciled to God by the death of His Son ( Romans 5 ).

It was always His purpose to save and purify a people unto Himself.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"Free Grace Theology is essentially a view of soteriology grown from more traditional Baptist roots. It was systematized by theologians such as Dr.’s Charles Ryrie and Zane Hodges in the 1980s, mainly as a response to Lordship Theology or Lordship Salvation, which has its roots in Reformed theology. Today, Free Grace is still going strong, supported by Charles Bing, Joseph Dillow, and the Grace Evangelical Society.

The basic teaching of Free Grace Theology is that responding to the “call to believe” in Jesus Christ through faith alone is all that is necessary to receive eternal life. This basic, simple belief brings assurance of “entering” the kingdom of God. Then, if a person further responds to the “call to follow” Jesus, he becomes a disciple and undergoes [progressive] sanctification. The follower of Christ has the opportunity to “inherit” the kingdom of God, which includes receiving particular rewards based on works accomplished for God on earth" [post salvation.]
[From the Got Questions website]
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It appears that the problem with "Free Grace Theology" as presented by "God Questions" is it leaves out that God must credit a person's faith as righteous faith in order to receive God's bestowal of the benefit of salvation. Not a minor omission.
 
Alan Gross

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Van said:
It appears that the problem with "Free Grace Theology" as presented by "God Questions" is it leaves out that God must credit a person's faith as righteous faith in order to receive God's bestowal of the benefit of salvation. Not a minor omission.
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Van said:
God must credit a person's faith as righteous faith in order to receive God's bestowal of the benefit of salvation.
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I can't tell you what to believe,
but I know of no such thing, except in the mind of Van.
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
kyredneck said:
...that's why it's called 'Vanology'.
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You forgot the i... Think about it and will come to you, if it hasn't already... Brother Glen:)

Galatians 2: 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Martin Marprelate said:
Elect from eternity; justified by faith in time (Romans 5:1).
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I thought may be you brethren would get a kick out of this... A while back when my grandson Joshie was just a little guy... His Mother told us later that during Sunday School, the word Justification came up... I don't know how she explained it but Joshie had the answer... Can anyone tell me what Justification is?... Joshie kept jumping up and down with his hand raised... Going I know, I know, I know... Finally the teacher ask Josie to tell the class what Justification is... Joshie stood up and said... Well tomorrow my family is going on Just a vacation to visit my grandparents... After that who cares what the teacher said... Brother Glen:Biggrin
 
KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
Elect from eternity; justified by faith in time (Romans 5:1).
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I think all four views on justification are equally valid and true - justified from eternity, justified at the cross, justified at the resurrection, justified at the point of saving faith.
 
KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Have some Scriptures in mind?
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Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

God is immutable. God is not reactive. It was in the mind of God from eternity that He would justify His elect in Christ(justified from eternity), their sins are imputed to Christ and Christ paid the debt of the elect's sins(justified at the cross), God raised Christ from the dead indicating that He accepted Christ's payment(justified at the resurrection of Christ), Christ's perfect righteousness is imputed to the elect, and God grants the elect saving faith in Christ and His righteousness(justified at the point of saving faith).
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Can you count the number of posts and posters denying the very words of Christ?

Lets see:
1) Post 29 by Alan, which removes Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25 from his knowledge of scripture.
2) Post 30 by Kyredneck which claims Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25 are figments of my imagination.
3) Post 31 by Tyndale seems to claim God crediting a person's faith frustrates grace. I kid you not.

It appears that the problem with "Free Grace Theology" as presented by "God Questions" is it leaves out that God must credit a person's faith as righteous faith in order to receive God's bestowal of the benefit of salvation. Not a minor omission.​

1) These deniers claim God does not credit some faith as righteous faith! See Romans 4.
2) These posters claim we were always a chosen people, chosen individually before our creation! Thus they deny we were once not a people chosen for God's own possession. See 1 Peter 2:9-10
3) These posters deny we were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. See 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
 
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