Romans 9 Isn't What You Think It Is - continued...

[DaveXR650]

I'll read nothing else your write until your repent of this blatant lie.

If you are not lying about this then you won't be reading my reply, now would you.
But anyway, in case someone else might still see this.

You yourself point out the hugely important differences between your doctrine and traditional Calvinism and yet insist on calling yourself a Calvinist anyway and then you accuse me of "making up whatever definition of Calvinism I want"! It's so stupid that one would normally think it was some sort of joke!

I don't like calling myself a Calvinist because I disagree with it on two points that a staunch Calvinist would insist on. But, my views on theology are very close to John Owen, Edwards, and especially the newer Calvinists like J.C. Ryle, Horatius Bonar, and Charles Spurgeon. For you to make these accusations against me without you having any understanding of what these guys taught frankly makes you look like a complete idiot. You either make a specific point about something I have said or shut up.

 

[JD731]

No, not really. I've been doing this too long to think that's at all likely. If it happens at all, it comes as a shock and as an incredibly pleasant surprise. I do this primarily for my own benefit. I expose myself to various views and to various ways that people respond to my doctrine. I keep hoping to find someone who can present a challenge to my way of thinking that is honest, intelligent and engaging and I routinely get disappointed by thin-skinned cry babies and liars. Christians that participate on internet forums are, by and large, the most dishonest people I have ever encountered and I haven't seen a cogent argument against a syllable of my doctrine in years. It's nothing but cliche and intentionally anti-intellectual and flagrantly irrational, blind beliefism, similar to much of the things you've said to me in the last few posts. Most Christians wouldn't know a rational argument from a Road Runner cartoon.

I can tolerate that sort of thing. I'd have good reason not to but it's so universally pervasive, the alternative would be to not participate in these forums at all. What I do not tolerate is when someone accuses me of being dishonest, especially when that someone just got through admitting to me that their own doctrine does not make sense and that it's somehow wrong for me to expect doctrine to make sense.

So we now know what you think about the people on these boards and your assessment of most Christians. And we know what you think of yourself because you have told us that too. I heard a preacher say this one time and thought it was a saying to remember. Pride is a sickness that infects one and makes him feel really good while it makes everyone around him sick.

 

[CJP69]

If you are not lying about this then you won't be reading my reply, now would you.
But anyway, in case someone else might still see this.

I don't like calling myself a Calvinist because I disagree with it on two points that a staunch Calvinist would insist on. But, my views on theology are very close to John Owen, Edwards, and especially the newer Calvinists like J.C. Ryle, Horatius Bonar, and Charles Spurgeon. For you to make these accusations against me without you having any understanding of what these guys taught frankly makes you look like a complete idiot. You either make a specific point about something I have said or shut up.

Good bye!

 

[CJP69]

So we now know what you think about the people on these boards and your assessment of most Christians.

People on these boards, yes. Most Christians, certainly not.

And we know what you think of yourself because you have told us that too.

If you can refute a syllable of what I've said, I'd hear it gladly. You won't even try.

Tell me again why I should care what you think of me?

I heard a preacher say this one time and thought it was a saying to remember. Pride is a sickness that infects one and makes him feel really good while it makes everyone around him sick.

Right back at ya, hypocrite!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I apologize for being a bother to you. I will, henceforth, try to avoid any interaction with you on this board.

Isn’t it disconcerting to be called stupid by a fellow Christian ( or at one claiming to be one)?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If you are not lying about this then you won't be reading my reply, now would you.
But anyway, in case someone else might still see this.

I don't like calling myself a Calvinist because I disagree with it on two points that a staunch Calvinist would insist on. But, my views on theology are very close to John Owen, Edwards, and especially the newer Calvinists like J.C. Ryle, Horatius Bonar, and Charles Spurgeon. For you to make these accusations against me without you having any understanding of what these guys taught frankly makes you look like a complete idiot. You either make a specific point about something I have said or shut up.

I applaud your answer…well done

 

[CJP69]

Isn’t it disconcerting to be called stupid by a fellow Christian ( or at one claiming to be one)?

It is more disconcerting to find the levels of stupidity that is common among those who call themselves Christians, not to mention the level of ignorance it takes to think that being nice to aggressively stupid people is a trait worth lauding to the point of having as a test of faith and piety.

Next you'll be telling me how it's wrong to judge.

 

[Alan Gross]

It is more disconcerting to find the levels of stupidity that is common among those who call themselves Christians, not to mention the level of ignorance it takes to think that being nice to aggressively stupid people is a trait worth lauding to the point of having as a test of faith and piety.

Next you'll be telling me how it's wrong to judge.

Everything you've posted on this
Romans 9 Isn't What You Think It Is
- continued...

and the first one, is all wrong...

What do you call that, then?

What's your judgment on that?

You think you'll get it 'right' in a way God agrees with?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is more disconcerting to find the levels of stupidity that is common among those who call themselves Christians, not to mention the level of ignorance it takes to think that being nice to aggressively stupid people is a trait worth lauding to the point of having as a test of faith and piety.

Next you'll be telling me how it's wrong to judge.

I personally don’t give a fart what you think, see your a jackass and you gots an attitude. In days gone by, people like you would be taken off this board but today insulting brethren is just OK for your ilk so go ahead and flap your mouth… it will catch up to you, guaranteed.

 

[CJP69]

I personally don’t give a fart [implied cuss word here - we all know what you really wanted to say!] what you think, see your a jackass and you gots an attitude.

Why?

It isn't because I call people names, is it?

In days gone by, people like you would be taken off this board but today insulting brethren is just OK for your ilk so go ahead and flap your mouth…

You seem to have taken it up quite naturally.

The difference between you and I is that I do it for cause, you do it because you're a hypocrite who can't stand for someone to speak the truth.

it will catch up to you, guaranteed.

Graduated to threats, have we, or are you appealing to justice, the very sort of justice that, if I deserved it, would prove your doctrine false?!

You make me want to laugh on the one hand and want to vomit on the other. You're perfectly fine with people insulting the character of God so long as they do it nicely but when someone shows up to defend the honor of God and who doesn't care who gets offended by it, you're the first to judge, to condemn, to insult and to threaten. If it weren't so idiotically depraved it would be funny.

Go somewhere and hide yourself really good so that you can watch as see whether I lose even one wink of sleep worrying about either your threats or your prophecies of a coming kind of justice that you know nor care anything about.

 

[Alan Gross]

You're perfectly fine with people insulting the character of God

What have you seen to be someone doing what you are calling,
"insulting the character of God"?
...

when someone shows up to defend the honor of God
and who doesn't care who gets offended by it,

What quick examples of where you say you would be one that
"shows up to defend the honor of God" could you quote us real quick?
...

you're the first to judge, to condemn, to insult and to threaten.
If it weren't so idiotically depraved it would be funny.

"you're the first to judge, to condemn";

The difference between you and I is that I do it for cause,
you do it because you're a hypocrite
who can't stand for someone to speak the truth.

"to insult and to threaten";

You make me want to laugh on the one hand
and want to vomit on the other.

You're perfectly fine with people insulting the character of God so long as they do it nicely but when someone shows up to defend the honor of God and who doesn't care who gets offended by it, you're the first to judge, to condemn, to insult and to threaten.

Go somewhere and hide yourself really good so that you can watch as see whether I lose even one wink of sleep worrying about either your threats or your prophecies of a coming kind of justice that you know nor care anything about.

you're the first to judge, to condemn, to insult and to threaten.

...

 

[Judith]

Romans 9 is about the sovereignty Of God exercised through election.

 

[JD731]

Romans 9 is about the sovereignty Of God exercised through election.

Silly!

There is no doctrine in the scriptures that God has called sovereignty. The earth is the LORD's and the fullness thereof, he says. From the beginning he has let it out to stewards. who must at some point give account of their stewardship.

Ps 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Personally, I think you are probably too wise to be tricked into believing a doctrine that is not even in the scriptures. It would not make sense.

 

[Judith]

Psalm 115.3 “Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.”
Isaiah 61:1 “The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners.”

That is Sovereignty.

 

[atpollard]

I've been doing this for a very very long time, Dave, and I can tell you from first hand experience that no matter what you think, if you want to call yourself a Calvinist, you cannot escape Calvin.

Since this is a Baptist Board, we can throw John Calvin out the window and call ourselves Particular Baptists (as we have for 400 years).

 

[JD731]

Psalm 115.3 “Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.”
Isaiah 61:1 “The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners.”

That is Sovereignty.

You have obviously missed the memo;

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

What pleased him? Can we know? does he say?

Yes, in fact he says;

15 Ye are blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth.
16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

He could have kept them all because he made them but it pleased him to give the earth to the children of men.

See how easy this is?

 

[Silverhair]

Since this is a Baptist Board, we can throw John Calvin out the window and call ourselves Particular Baptists (as we have for 400 years).

Would you agree with this description of Particular Baptists?

Particular Baptists are so-called because they believe in "particular" or limited atonement. Since they hold a Reformed theological, or Calvinistic, view of the atonement, Particular Baptists are also sometimes called "Reformed Baptists."

Today the Particular Baptists hold to five-point Calvinism.

Particular, or Reformed, Baptists hold to a Bible-based theology and follow the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith.
The Particular Baptist Church – What is it? What do Particular Baptists believe?

 

[atpollard]

Would you agree with this description of Particular Baptists?

Yes, but there are two important things to remember (other than the fact that nearly everyone defines Calvinist differently since there is no “Calvinist” book or denomination to set a definitive definition … even John Calvin was not a ‘5-point Calvinist’):

1. As Baptists, we disagree with our Reformed brothers on several important points found in things like the Westminster Confession of Faith.
2. The Doctrines of Grace [TULIP] are not “The Institutes” by John Calvin. One may embrace TULIP without embracing every doctrine found in The Institutes.

 

[atpollard]

You have obviously missed the memo;

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

What pleased him? Can we know? does he say?

Yes, in fact he says;

15 Ye are blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth.
16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

He could have kept them all because he made them but it pleased him to give the earth to the children of men.

See how easy this is?

Are you saying God has abdicated control?
Isn’t that Deism?

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, but there are two important things to remember (other than the fact that nearly everyone defines Calvinist differently since there is no “Calvinist” book or denomination to set a definitive definition … even John Calvin was not a ‘5-point Calvinist’):

1. As Baptists, we disagree with our Reformed brothers on several important points found in things like the Westminster Confession of Faith.
2. The Doctrines of Grace [TULIP] are not “The Institutes” by John Calvin. One may embrace TULIP without embracing every doctrine found in The Institutes.

Since you hold to the DoG how do you square them with the character of God?
Where do you find contextual scriptural support for your view?