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Romans 9

I

Its_real_for me !

Member
kyredneck said:
Nah, you brought it up, you go first.
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3rd verse opens with Israel

4th verse adaption pertains to Jews. Messianic Jews.

Verse 6, pertains to Jacob

Verse 15 compassion on Jews in Egypt

Verse 16 not of works but Gods mercy

Verse 17 power over Pharaoh

Verse 18 control over the hearts of men against His people.

Verse 19 no one can resist his will among men

Verse 20-21 who shall question God who makes vessels for honor and dishonor.

Verse 22 God doesn’t take pleasure ( that’s another topic) but with much long suffering destroys evil men.

Verse 25 certain people like ie; Abraham, Naaman and others.

Verse 30 gentiles righteousness is of faith.

Verse 32 stumbled at Christ

Verse 33 faith in Christ
 
I

Its_real_for me !

Member
As a new believer 30 years ago an old missionary told me that debates and disagreements come from how scripture is interpreted. Below is an example..........

This mornings church service text was in the book of Jerimiah chapter 20:8-9 and always has to lead into the plan of Salvation, and typically the preacher always gets too loud. The text says Jerimiah cried out, the original Hebrew word cried means to "call out", not necessarily to yell. The preacher made a comment about the fire in his heart doesn't mean he should talk calmly and softly to the people but to make his case with vigor and to get their attention. People can be called out without yelling by simply raising your voice at times, without yelling. And there is scripture about how a preacher, teacher, pastor, etc.. should conduct themselves, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves, 2nd Timothy 2:25a.

Also in 1st Timothy 2, that says about "all men", some interpret literally all meaning all men, can (along with Gods providence must be included in salvation) get saved? We know that narrow is the way, straight is the gait and few will go through it, (and it from unbelief, yes) broad is the way and many will find it ( and yes again, from unbelief). How about the greek word for the word, all... whosoever (any..one, no matter what race, Jew or gentile) as many as, or better God is not prejudicial or partial. Yes Paul encourages Timothy and us to pray for all people, and emphasizes that from the opening of the chapter, "I exhort therefore that, first of all, supplications, prayers, giving of thanks be made for all men. All men. Paul doesn't mention anything about that all men can get saved and he supports that in his other epistles about the sovereign hand of God !

Ok, I knew I would get to the main point of my thread.... predestination.
 
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kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Its_real_for me ! said:
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
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John Chapter 6

65​

And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.

66​

Upon this many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Matthew Chapter 11

27​

All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him.
 
I

Its_real_for me !

Member
kyredneck said:
John Chapter 6

65​

And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.

66​

Upon this many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Matthew Chapter 11

27​

All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him.
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John 6 Special purpose of the chosen disciples like other patriarchs aren't part of plan of mankind. I always thought that.

Matthew 11 Christ reveals who the Father is.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
 
Kai

Kai

Active Member
It's important to keep in mind that the context of Romans 9 is dependent on Paul's Jewish audience being familiar with the Old Testament scriptures. As a matter of fact, there are exactly 14 direct OT citations, making it the chapter with the highest concentration of references in the entire letter. So, it's safe to assume that when the potter and clay analogy is brought up, the audience would have understood exactly what that meant.

Jeremiah 18:5-11 (ESV)
Then the word of the Lord came to me: “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter has done? declares the Lord. Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it. Now, therefore, say to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: ‘Thus says the Lord, Behold, I am shaping disaster against you and devising a plan against you. Return, every one from his evil way, and amend your ways and your deeds.’
 
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