Romney Persona Non Grata In Italy For Bain’s Deal Skirting Taxes

[Crabtownboy]

If he has no regard for laws in other countries where he had dealings it is logical to believe he has no regard for laws ........................ [fill in the gap.]

That’s because Bain Capital, under Romney as chief executive officer, made about $1 billion in a leveraged buyout 12 years ago that remains controversial in Italy to this day. Bain was part of a group that bought a telephone-directory company from the Italian government and then sold it about two years later, at the peak of the technology bubble, for about 25 times what it paid.

Bain funneled profits through subsidiaries in Luxembourg, a common corporate strategy for avoiding income taxes in other European countries, according to documents reviewed by Bloomberg News. The buyer, Italy’s biggest telephone company, now has a total market value less than what it paid Bain and other investors for the directory business.
In Italy, the deals have spurred at least three books, separate legal and regulatory probes and newspaper columns alleging investors made a fortune at the expense of Italian taxpayers. Boston-based Bain wasn’t a subject of the inquiries, which didn’t result in any charges.

I may be wrong, but doesn't the US try to put people in jail who funnel profits through subsidiaries in other countries?

 

[Don]

Link, please.

 

[InTheLight]

made about $1 billion in a leveraged buyout 12 years ago

Hmmm... that would be the year 2000 AND ROMNEY WASN'T ACTIVELY RUNNING BAIN CAPITAL!

 

[InTheLight]

I may be wrong, but doesn't the US try to put people in jail who funnel profits through subsidiaries in other countries?

Yes, you would be wrong.

 

[Don]

Let me see if I understand you correctly:
The Italian government owned the directory. They chose to sell it. Bain bought it; as has been commented on, the sale was completely legal.

In 2000, after Romney had given up control of Bain to concentrate on the Olympics, Bain decided to sell it off. Bain complied with all legal requirements for such a transaction, an investigation was conducted, and--as the article states--no legal actions have been filed against Bain.

Further, the Italian Finance Minister has declined to comment, which shows that the Italian government realizes this was their action, their mistake.

FURTHER, the Italian company that bought Bain's shares admits that the profits Bain made were during the technology bubble at the beginning of the 21st century, and that they are now victims of the economic situation that has been plaguing Europe for several years.

EVEN FURTHER, the Italian government is currently considering doing more of the same actions to reduce their government's debt.

And this makes Romney look like a "bad guy" for what reason? It actually sounds more like a "sore loser" situation.


Why would you post such inanity?

 

[InTheLight]

And this makes Romney look like a "bad guy" for what reason? It actually sounds more like a "sore loser" situation.


Why would you post such inanity?

Because buying something and reselling it for a profit is wrong in CTB's world?

Because CTB was under the impression that designating a subsidiary in another country as your corporate tax home is illegal.

 

[Don]

Look, I need to make a comment here that CTB and others need to look at in a big, big way: Everyone admits that Bain started doing things a lot of us disagree with. They started doing it when Romney stepped aside.

Think about that really carefully. *AFTER* the CEO steps aside to concentrate on other things, the company starts doing things people disagree with.

What was the company doing while the CEO was actively involved? Why are there no stories about the company doing less-than-agreeable things while he was still actively in charge?

All the evidence points to a company that did things we agree with while this man was actively engaged, actively in charge. Once he focused on other matters, the company started down a different path.

The attempts to tie him to that path are nothing more than "reaching."

Find something that you can actually attribute to the man, rather than casting innuendo and falsehoods.

 

[carpro]

I don't care if the liberal troll has a link or not. I like what I'm reading!

A guy smart enough to sell something for 25 times what he paid for it is a guy I want on my team. Italians are just sore because the were shortsighted and stupid.

Romney's business acumen appears to be top notch. If he'll bring those skills to government , he's got my vote.

And it sure beats the economic illiterate occupying the White House with no business experience and no clue.

 

[just-want-peace]

Crabby is still trying to play in the big kids sandbox - just ignore him!!

 

[carpro]

Crabby is still trying to play in the big kids sandbox - just ignore him!!

Not this time.

Without intending to he actually enhanced Romney's business reputation. I'd like some more articles like this one, no matter where he got it.:laugh:

 

[Crabtownboy]

Yes, you would be wrong.

You may be right. Can you show me a link where it says it is legal to make profits in the US and then funnel them through subsidiaries in other countries to avoid taxes here?

 

[InTheLight]

You may be right. Can you show me a link where it says it is legal to make profits in the US and then funnel them through subsidiaries in other countries to avoid taxes here?

It's in the Washington Post story you excerpted (but didn't link to) in the OP (page 2 of story).

 

[Crabtownboy]

It's in the Washington Post story you excerpted (but didn't link to) in the OP (page 2 of story).

Actually I read and quoted from another source, but forgot to provide the link. I apologize for that.

It is legal. But legal is not always ethical. Making this type of money movement to avoid taxes should be illegal IMHO ... regardless of the company.

You and I cannot not do that with our paychecks.

I can see why he skipped Italy on his tour to show what an expert he is on foreign relations.

But the gist of article remains true ... he would not be welcome in Italy, not as a private citizen anyway.

 

[carpro]

It's in the Washington Post story you excerpted (but didn't link to) in the OP (page 2 of story).

:laugh: Hillarious. Crabby doens't bother to read his own source. Why am I not surprised?:smilewinkgrin:

 

[InTheLight]

It is legal. But legal is not always ethical. Making this type of money movement to avoid taxes should be illegal IMHO ... regardless of the company.

You should not have written,

"If he has no regard for laws in other countries where he had dealings it is logical to believe he has no regard for laws ........................ [fill in the gap.]

He did not ignore laws. He did nothing illegal.

You and I cannot not do that with our paychecks.

Of course we can't. Surely you know there are different laws for individual tax payers and corporate tax payers.

I can see why he skipped Italy on his tour to show what an expert he is on foreign relations.

This is innuendo. Rush Limbaugh would be proud. We don't know if he "skipped Italy on his tour" of Europe. He visited Britain and Poland (then went to Israel.) Who knows why he selected those countries? I wonder what other skeletons in his closet caused him to similarly "skip" Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, France, Sweden, Serbia, Czech Republic, etc. etc.

But the gist of article remains true ... he would not be welcome in Italy, not as a private citizen anyway.

The article is a slanted attack piece. He would probably be welcome in Italy. From the article:

While few ordinary Italians realize the link between Romney and the investor group, the deal symbolizes Italy’s economic woes and government futility

If few ordinary Italians realize the link between Romney and the investor group, and the sale took place 12 years ago, how can the news article claim "Romney Persona Non Grata in Italy"? They didn't even quote anyone saying he was not welcome. They just made it up out of thin air.

 

[Don]

I must be on CTB's "ignore" list.

You're just not getting it, CTB. The article is trying to link Romney to something that was legal and make it sound bad. The true story is in the article: Italy made bad choices, and wants to blame others for their mistakes.

The Washington Post is encouraging them to blame Romney.

And you're more than willing to jump on that bandwagon without actually talking about the meat of the article.

-----
BTW: I'm with Carpro on this one. A guy makes a business decision that results in a profit 25 times what they paid for it...and this is a bad thing? It sounds exactly like the thing this country needs to get us out of our economic problems.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I must be on CTB's "ignore" list.

You're just not getting it, CTB. The article is trying to link Romney to something that was legal and make it sound bad. The true story is in the article: Italy made bad choices, and wants to blame others for their mistakes.

No, you misjudge me. I understand now, after reading more than one article, that what was done was legal. I wish I had similiar loopholes where I could hide money and avoid taxes. Don't you wish you did?

Also, I understand why it is still true that Italian government officials and others are not happy and would not welcome him as a private citizen. Yes, perhaps they made a bad decision ... that also would not make them happy.

Apparently it was the Italian tax payers who took a bath and I can see why they might not be happy with either their government or with Bain and thus with Romney.

 

[Arbo]

Actually I read and quoted from another source, but forgot to provide the link.

I was beginning to think Crabby was talking to Sen. Harry.

 

[Arbo]

It is legal. But legal is not always ethical. Making this type of money movement to avoid taxes should be illegal IMHO ... regardless of the company.

The use of legal means to avoid paying more tax than necessary shows good financial sense.

 

[InTheLight]

No, you misjudge me. I understand now, after reading more than one article, that what was done was legal. I wish I had similiar loopholes where I could hide money and avoid taxes. Don't you wish you did?

Bain did not 'hide money'. It was all reported on tax returns. They are simply using the laws of the countries involved to avoid taxation. Avoiding taxation is very different from evading taxation.

Also, I understand why it is still true that Italian government officials and others are not happy and would not welcome him as a private citizen.

Where in the article does it say that Romney is not welcome in Italy? Seriously, where?

Apparently it was the Italian tax payers who took a bath and I can see why they might not be happy with either their government or with Bain and thus with Romney.

Here's what the article says about the average Italian taxpayer and Romney:

While few ordinary Italians realize the link between Romney and the investor group,

....so why would Italians be unhappy with Romney?