Romney Was Not the Problem

[AresMan]

I think we often overestimate the power of the Christian voting bloc in the blue states. Are they any stats to show that they could have changed enough of the key electoral states to reverse the election?

In addition it is just possible that this election turned out exactly way God wanted it to.

If Christians voted their conscience, the major parties would have to stand up and take notice.

 

[AresMan]

That is the best advice I have seen in a long time. Now is the time to get involved and work for a decent candidate in both parties. It is not at the start of 2016 when the primaries are upon us again. We need to emphasize our message, Constitutional standards, economic growth, jobs, protected borders, equal opportunity for all, limited government, a strong defense, energy independence, standing by our true allies, moral values, etc. One thing that we do need to do is spread the message to all races, ethnic groups, creeds, etc. We need to take the debate to every state, and early on. If one remembers, Reagan carried every state but Minnesota, and Nixon carried every state but MA. One thing that is very important is to present candidates that have common sense, and know how to talk to the people. The Republican candidates in Missouri and Indiana putting their foot in their mouth cost us two seats in conservative states and the control of the Senate.

We need to focus on reality and stop worrying about the Mayan calendar, global conspiracy theories, and UFO invasions.

We need a candidate who will put the Constitution and its obvious original intent at the forefront and obsess with it. He or she should answer almost all questions with the article, section, or amendment that indicates if something would be within the enumerated power of the office to do; then, how that would fit in with Christian values.

In the Presidential debates, this candidate would barrage the opponent with constant charges of Constitutionality and put him on the defense. It should not be about "My idea is better than yours," but rather "You did this, which expressly violates X in the Constitution; therefore, you are no longer fit for office" or "This proposal violates X in the Constitution. If you were allowed to carry this out, you would have committed perjury."

Why is it that Jesus Himself said that it is better not to swear, and that those who do are obligated before God to carry out their oaths, yet Christians today give a blind eye to politicians saying or doing things that clearly violate the Constitution--which they swore on the Bible before God to uphold?! What is wrong with you people?! It should never be about "We have to keep this other guy out of office." It should be about your conscience, and particularly about your accountability in supporting the blatant violation of oaths before God by voting for someone, knowing that that person will not regard the document he or she swore to uphold.

God does not bite His nails hoping that Christians will vote for the lesser of two evils. He is all powerful, and holds the heart of the king in His hands. No. He expects us to follow Him, not act like atheists by thinking that our fate lies in the materialism of the world and human outcomes.

 

[Alcott]

Romney Was Not the Problem

But he wasn't enough of the solution. So we re-elected the problem.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Baloney trumps bull anytime!



Yeah! Yeah! We have all heard that before!


Fellow what are you puffing on. I said nothing about your religion. But again if the broad brush slapped you up side the head then that is your problem. I have heard it said that a guilty conscience needs no accuser!

You are becoming a joke. And I will waste no more time with you.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

....The Mormon thing didn't concern me one bit. The problem for me was that Romney was so obviously pro-choice and socialistic in Massachusetts.

Sorry, if I know someone will put his hand on the Bible and swear before God and country to defend and uphold the Constitution... and already plans to lie under oath and violate it, I will NOT even entertain the idea of gracing that person with my vote... EVER.

I do not support oath-breaking before God. I will not support someone who makes fun of the Constitution. I don't care what election it is or what party it is. I don't care if the person is nominally "conservative" either. If someone will not take the oath of office seriously and submit to the chains of the Constitution (and its obvious original intent), I don't care if the person is otherwise a fundamentalist Christian, I will not support willful breaking of an oath before God.

THAT is Biblical.

Excellent.

 

[OldRegular]

If Christians voted their conscience, the major parties would have to stand up and take notice.

And just who would they vote for?

 

[AresMan]

And just who would they vote for?

Either someone else on the ballot, or they would make their voices loud and known why they cannot vote for either of the two major candidates.

 

[OldRegular]

Either someone else on the ballot, or they would make their voices loud and known why they cannot vote for either of the two major candidates.

If professing Christians voted as a block you might have a point but they don't! A lot of Christians voted for Carter and what did we get?

There are several denominations who have endorsed abortion. Initially the Southern Baptist Convention endorsed abortion. I suspect Baptist hospitals perform abortions. Have heard the one in Columbia, SC does but have no definitive proof and it would do no good if I did have.

There was certainly no one on the ballot this year that I could support. Although I have some libertarian beliefs a doctrine libertarian is borderline anarchist in my opinion.

 

[saturneptune]

If professing Christians voted as a block you might have a point but they don't! A lot of Christians voted for Carter and what did we get?

There are several denominations who have endorsed abortion. Initially the Southern Baptist Convention endorsed abortion. I suspect Baptist hospitals perform abortions. Have heard the one in Columbia, SC does but have no definitive proof and it would do no good if I did have.

There was certainly no one on the ballot this year that I could support. Although I have some libertarian beliefs a doctrine libertarian is borderline anarchist in my opinion.

Carter's first run was one of the very few times I have voted for a Democrat. When he ran for reelection in 1980, I voted for Reagan. At the time, in 1976, I was not even thinking about abortion. I felt the country needed a change at the time. He was from the South and to me, appeared conservative. He also was a Christian. As it turned out, it was not so much him being liberal that changed my mind, but his inability to lead and govern. The government was in total disarray between the high interest rates and the hostage crisis. I was not Baptist at the time, so that had nothing to do with it.

 

[OldRegular]

Carter's first run was one of the very few times I have voted for a Democrat. When he ran for reelection in 1980, I voted for Reagan. At the time, in 1976, I was not even thinking about abortion. I felt the country needed a change at the time. He was from the South and to me, appeared conservative. He also was a Christian. As it turned out, it was not so much him being liberal that changed my mind, but his inability to lead and govern. The government was in total disarray between the high interest rates and the hostage crisis. I was not Baptist at the time, so that had nothing to do with it.

A lot of Southern Baptists voted for Carter. I was not one of them. Of course being both politically liberal and theologically liberal Carter has disavowed the Southern Baptists. The older he gets the further out he gets!

 

[saturneptune]

A lot of Southern Baptists voted for Carter. I was not one of them. Of course being both politically liberal and theologically liberal Carter has disavowed the Southern Baptists. The older he gets the further out he gets!

His ideas have indeed gotten stranger as the years have gone by. I heard him give a speech at the Democratic Convention some years back (not this one) that could have been a recording of George McGovern.

 

[Crabtownboy]

A lot of Southern Baptists voted for Carter. I was not one of them. Of course being both politically liberal and theologically liberal Carter has disavowed the Southern Baptists. The older he gets the further out he gets!

Older and wiser.

 

[blackbird]

There are several denominations who have endorsed abortion. Initially the Southern Baptist Convention endorsed abortion. I suspect Baptist hospitals perform abortions. Have heard the one in Columbia, SC does but have no definitive proof and it would do no good if I did have.

Is there any documented PROOF you have that the SBC endorsed or endorses abortion besides "Have HEARD . . ."

"Have heard" is hearsay----religious gossip not fit for the hogpen

 

[OldRegular]

Older and wiser.

Actually there are questions about his mental well being. But I have expressed those same concerns about the Obama serfs!

 

[OldRegular]

Is there any documented PROOF you have that the SBC endorsed or endorses abortion besides "Have HEARD . . ."

"Have heard" is hearsay----religious gossip not fit for the hogpen

Before making asinine statements that really are

fit for the hog pen

you should check the facts:

From: http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=1130

SBC Resolutions
ON THIRTY YEARS OF ROE v. WADE
June 2003


WHEREAS, Scripture reveals that all human life is created in the image of God, and therefore sacred to our Creator (Genesis 1:27; Genesis 9:6); and

WHEREAS, The Bible affirms that the unborn baby is a person bearing the image of God from the moment of conception (Psalm 139:13–16; Luke 1:44); and

WHEREAS, Scripture further commands the people of God to plead for protection for the innocent and justice for the fatherless (Psalm 72:12–14; Psalm 82:3; James 1:27); and

WHEREAS, January 2003 marked thirty years since the 1973 United States Supreme Court Roe v. Wade decision, which legalized abortion in all fifty states; and

WHEREAS, Resolutions passed by the Southern Baptist Convention in 1971 and 1974 accepted unbiblical premises of the abortion rights movement, forfeiting the opportunity to advocate the protection of defenseless women and children; and

WHEREAS, During the early years of the post-Roe era, some of those then in leadership positions within the denomination endorsed and furthered the “pro-choice” abortion rights agenda outlined in Roe v. Wade; and

WHEREAS, Some political leaders have referenced 1970s-era Southern Baptist Convention resolutions and statements by former Southern Baptist Convention leaders to oppose legislative efforts to protect women and children from abortion; and

WHEREAS, Southern Baptist churches have effected a renewal of biblical orthodoxy and confessional integrity in our denomination, beginning with the Southern Baptist Convention presidential election of 1979; and

WHEREAS, The Southern Baptist Convention has maintained a robust commitment to the sanctity of all human life, including that of the unborn, beginning with a landmark pro-life resolution in 1982; and

WHEREAS, Our confessional statement, The Baptist Faith and Message, affirms that children “from the moment of conception, are a blessing and heritage from the Lord”; and further affirms that Southern Baptists are mandated by Scripture to “speak on behalf of the unborn and contend for the sanctity of all human life from conception to natural death”; and

WHEREAS, The legacy of Roe v. Wade has grown to include ongoing assaults on human life such as euthanasia, the harvesting of human embryos for the purposes of medical experimentation, and an accelerating move toward human cloning; now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Phoenix, Arizona, June 17–18, 2003, reiterate our conviction that the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision was based on a fundamentally flawed understanding of the United States Constitution, human embryology, and the basic principles of human rights; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we reaffirm our belief that the Roe v. Wade decision was an act of injustice against innocent unborn children as well as against vulnerable women in crisis pregnancy situations, both of which have been victimized by a “sexual revolution” that empowers predatory and irresponsible men and by a lucrative abortion industry that has fought against even the most minimal restrictions on abortion; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we offer our prayers, our love, and our advocacy for women and men who have been abused by abortion and the emotional, spiritual, and physical aftermath of this horrific practice; affirming that the gospel of Jesus Christ grants complete forgiveness for any sin, including that of abortion; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we lament and renounce statements and actions by previous Conventions and previous denominational leadership that offered support to the abortion culture; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we humbly confess that the initial blindness of many in our Convention to the enormity of Roe v. Wade should serve as a warning to contemporary Southern Baptists of the subtlety of the spirit of the age in obscuring a biblical worldview; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we urge our Southern Baptist churches to remain vigilant in the protection of human life by preaching the whole counsel of God on matters of human sexuality and the sanctity of life, by encouraging and empowering Southern Baptists to adopt unwanted children, by providing spiritual, emotional, and financial support for women in crisis pregnancies, and by calling on our government officials to take action to protect the lives of women and children; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we express our appreciation to both houses of Congress for their passage of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003, and we applaud President Bush for his commitment to sign this bill into law; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we urge Congress to act swiftly to deliver this bill to President Bush for his signature; and be it finally

RESOLVED, That we pray and work for the repeal of the Roe v. Wade decision and for the day when the act of abortion will be not only illegal, but also unthinkable.

Emphasis is mine.

 

[OldRegular]

Is there any documented PROOF you have that the SBC endorsed or endorses abortion besides "Have HEARD . . ."

"Have heard" is hearsay----religious gossip not fit for the hogpen

But wait there is more:

From:http://abpnews.com/culture/social-i...n-chicken-or-egg??tmpl=component#.ULOwYrQTs3k

Heading into a presidential race in which taxpayer funding of abortion tops the Family Research Council’s “values voter” guide, author Jonathan Dudley suggested in a recent CNN religion blog that as late as the 1960s the consensus among evangelical thinkers was that life begins not at conception but birth.

The author of Broken Words: The Abuse of Science and Faith in American Politics argued that televangelist Jerry Falwell spearheaded the reversal of opinion on abortion in the late 1970s in order to form a political alliance with Catholics and win voters for the Republican Party.

The blog cited as evidence a 1971 Southern Baptist Convention resolution that supported “legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental and physical health of the mother.”

In his 2006 book, Thy Kingdom Come, Randall Balmer noted the approval of the Supreme Court’s 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that legalized most abortion by First Baptist of Dallas Pastor W.A. Criswell, president of the Southern Baptist Convention at the time.

“I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person, and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed,” Criswell said.

Criswell, who died in 2002, later reversed his position and became an abortion opponent. Criswell College, a Bible school he started and is named after him, recently sued the federal government claiming Obamacare violates the school’s religious beliefs by forcing it to pay for employee health insurance that covers birth-control pills they believe induce abortion.

While Criswell’s earlier views may have been the most public, he wasn’t alone in holding them. Wayne Dehoney, SBC president for two terms in the 1960s and longtime pastor of Walnut Street Baptist Church in Louisville, Ky., described “a basic watershed between Protestant and Catholic theology on two questions -- the morality of birth control, of which abortion is another form, and the question of when life begins.”

“Protestant theology generally takes Genesis 2:7 as a statement that the soul is formed at breath, not conception,” Dehoney said.

That’s what W.O. Vaught, pastor of Immanuel Baptist Church in Little Rock, Ark., told his most famous parishioner, President Bill Clinton.

In his 2004 autobiography, My Life, Clinton remembered Vaught telling him that while abortion was usually wrong, the Bible did not condemn it. Vaught said the Bible teaches that life begins not at conception but when life has been “breathed into” a baby after delivery.

“I asked him about the biblical statement that God knows us even when we are in our mother’s womb,” Clinton wrote. “He replied that the verse simply refers to God being omniscient, and that it might as well have said God knew us even before we were in our mother’s womb, even before anyone in our direct line was born.”

Another Southern Baptist president, Jimmy Carter, described his abortion policy while in office as balancing his faith and public service. “I have never believed that Jesus Christ would approve abortion,” Carter told Southern Seminary President Albert Mohler in an interview in March. As president, however, Carter took an oath to “preserve, protect and defend” the Constitution, interpreted by the Supreme Court to include a woman’s right to choose.

Dehoney, commenting on a Louisville Courier-Journal story in 1976 revealing that one tenant in property owned by his church was running an abortion clinic, said that he personally had “no moral or theological problem with the operation of a legal, ethical clinic.”

“However, as Baptists believe in the priesthood of every believer to search the Scriptures, find truth and make moral decisions for themselves, we have differing view on the matter of birth control and the question of when life begins,” Dehoney told Baptist Press.

A 1973 Baptist Press news analysis said there was no official Southern Baptist position on abortion. “Among 12 million Southern Baptists, there are probably 12 million different opinions,” observed BP Washington bureau chief Barry Garrett.

It would not remain a second-tier concern behind moral issues like gambling, Sunday closings and liquor sales forever, however. The Southern Baptist Convention revisited abortion in resolutions every year from 1976 through 1980. By 1980 the exclusions had narrowed to saving the life of the mother.

A 1984 resolution in Kansas City called on Southern Baptists to “support and work for legislation and/or constitutional amendment which will prohibit abortion except to save the physical life of the mother.”

The convention added a Sanctity of Human Life Sunday, marking the anniversary of Roe v. Wade in January, to the denomination’s calendar in 1985.

Emphasis is mine!

 

[OldRegular]

There are several denominations who have endorsed abortion. Initially the Southern Baptist Convention endorsed abortion. I suspect Baptist hospitals perform abortions. Have heard the one in Columbia, SC does but have no definitive proof and it would do no good if I did have.

Is there any documented PROOF you have that the SBC endorsed or endorses abortion besides "Have HEARD . . ."

"Have heard" is hearsay----religious gossip not fit for the hogpen

If you would read you would see that the "have heard" remark refers only to the Baptist hospital in Columbia, SC.

 

[Zaac]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/21/romney-was-not-the-problem/#ixzz2CvK6IILe

Coulter is correct! Romney was not the problem. The problem was those who were too lazy to get out and vote against Obama and for Romney. They are just as trifling as the ones who voted for Obama!

Romney got fewer votes than McCain did in 2008. It is a disgrace to the Republic and the Republican Party!

Coulter was right. Romney was not the problem. The problem is as it has been for a while: Christians who continue to forsake God in lieu of their own answers.

Until there is repentance, this nation will continue on its path to destruction.

 

[saturneptune]

Coulter was right. Romney was not the problem. The problem is as it has been for a while: Christians who continue to forsake God in lieu of their own answers.

Until there is repentance, this nation will continue on its path to destruction.

Yes, we all need to follow your opinion of the Gospel.