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Ron Pauls Secret Weapon

freeatlast

New Member
You sure are a defeatist. Sorry, but I believe in a Sovereign God. We should do what is RIGHT, and leave the results to Him.

If this falls under Sovereign God then Paul will be elected. However I don't think God is interested at this point. The first thing that needs to happen is the church to return to the One it calls Lord then God might take notice.
 

Havensdad

New Member
If this falls under Sovereign God then Paul will be elected. However I don't think God is interested at this point. The first thing that needs to happen is the church to return to the One it calls Lord then God might take notice.

The Church has never left. Now, there are a lot of buildings in America, that are full of a lot of people calling themselves Christian...but the true Church is following its Lord just as it always has.
 

freeatlast

New Member
The Church has never left. Now, there are a lot of buildings in America, that are full of a lot of people calling themselves Christian...but the true Church is following its Lord just as it always has.

Not according to scripture. Takea look into the Revelation and the seven churches. Only two are commended yet all are called churches.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
"....Ron Paul explained that he understands the motive for the law and that people are simply frustrated with the Federal government’s lack of enforcement of existing immigration laws......"

I think Paul believes if the Feds were to do their job there would be no need for the state law.

But, the Feds ARE NOT doing the job - therefore the State must get involved - Note: does the Constitution PROHIBIT the State from protecting its borders?

Not to contradict you as I have not polled anyone, but I do find it a little strange that " hardcore conservatives" as you put it support Ron Paul and him wanting to do away with federal drug laws, do away with federal death penalty, have no federal abortion laws, no marriage amendment, and weaken our military. What are you calling “hardcore conservatives”?

Free, you don't know how much this pains me to say this, but this time, I agree with you! :smilewinkgrin:

Now here is the question: What does a Conservative believe? Click here for the Conservative Party of New York platform.

Please note: The CPNY was founded in the early '60's. The CPNY is not affiliated with the National Constitution Party -(though there are several issues we agree on)

In addition, NY allows the fusion ballot - which allows candidates to be on several party lines for the same election. It has not been unheard of for a person to have his name on 4 different lines. What this amounts to is that the Republican has to listen to the Conservative Party - because if we do not cross endorse the Rep candidate, it decreased his chances are winning. It is very unusual for a Republican to win a statewide election without the Conservative Party line. (same goes for Working Party/Liberal Party endorsing the Democrat line)


President Ronald Reagan stated: “The Conservative Party has established itself as a preeminent force in New York Politics and an important part of our political history.”

This quote and the History of the Party can be found on this link

So, Free - if you lived in NY would you possibly become a member of the CPNY?
 
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freeatlast

New Member
But, the Feds ARE NOT doing the job - therefore the State must get involved - Note: does the Constitution PROHIBIT the State from protecting its borders?



Free, you don't know how much this pains me to say this, but this time, I agree with you! :smilewinkgrin:

Now here is the question: What does a Conservative believe? Click here for the Conservative Party of New York platform.

Please note: The CPNY was founded in the early '60's. The CPNY is not affiliated with the National Constitution Party -(though there are several issues we agree on)

In addition, NY allows the fusion ballot - which allows candidates to be on several party lines for the same election. It has not been unheard of for a person to have his name on 4 different lines. What this amounts to is that the Republican has to listen to the Conservative Party - because if we do not cross endorse the Rep candidate, it decreased his chances are winning. It is very unusual for a Republican to win a statewide election without the Conservative Party line. (same goes for Working Party/Liberal Party endorsing the Democrat line)


President Ronald Reagan stated: “The Conservative Party has established itself as a preeminent force in New York Politics and an important part of our political history.”

This quote and the History of the Party can be found on this link

So, Free - if you lived in NY would you possibly become a member of the CPNY?

Salty my answer is no I would not join that party or any party for that matter. I affiliate myself with no party. I am independent. Not an independent but independent. I seek to vote how I feel agrees with the Lord's position on issues even if those issues go against my personal desires.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Salty my answer is no I would not join that party or any party for that matter. I affiliate myself with no party. I am independent. Not an independent but independent. I seek to vote how I feel agrees with the Lord's position on issues even if those issues go against my personal desires.

Well, let me ask it this way - do you agree with the platform of the CP?

FYI - if you did live in NY, you could not be an independent! You would be considered "non-enrolled".

The reason I choose to be in a party, is so I have input in the selection of candidates - and I am not just talking bout voting in the primary. Actually I have been a town Charmian.
I should also mention that even as town Chairman, I have actually voted on the Democrat line!
 

freeatlast

New Member
Well, let me ask it this way - do you agree with the platform of the CP?

FYI - if you did live in NY, you could not be an independent! You would be considered "non-enrolled".

The reason I choose to be in a party, is so I have input in the selection of candidates - and I am not just talking bout voting in the primary. Actually I have been a town Charmian.
I should also mention that even as town Chairman, I have actually voted on the Democrat line!

Yes I agree with their platform, as given, as I understand it.
 

Havensdad

New Member
But, the Feds ARE NOT doing the job - therefore the State must get involved - Note: does the Constitution PROHIBIT the State from protecting its borders?

Well, technically it would, since only the powers not enumerated in the constitution are granted to the states. Regardless, this is a non-issue, since Paul wants to get to the heart of the matter. His platform:

" 1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods."


Now here is the question: What does a Conservative believe? Click here for the Conservative Party of New York platform.

Please note: The CPNY was founded in the early '60's. The CPNY is not affiliated with the National Constitution Party -(though there are several issues we agree on)
Yeah, the party might have been around, but THIS platform was adopted in September 2011. And Paul would still agree with MOST of what it says..

Traditional conservatives believe in small federal government. They affirm states rights, on those things not enumerated in the constitution. The problem is that THIS platform, is not consistent with what conservatives have traditionally held. We are NOT progressives; we do NOT believe in an "evolving" constitution!!! What a reprehensible idea! I guess, under that belief, it could eventually "evolve" support for homosexual marriage at the federal level.

Every conservative, that I have ever talked to, has explicitly denied that the constitution is an "evolving" document, and instead, have asserted that it is a stable document that is to be interpreted according to the original intent of the authors. The Federal government is NOT enumerated power to engage in a multi-billion dollar drug war. Thus, it is a state issue.

My question is, why would ANY conservative, want to keep spending billions of dollars to enforce drug laws, keep up the mindless prohibition that does not but spawn thousands of violent gangs, and turns pot smoking hippies into hardened, often violent criminals? It is absolutely INSANE, that we force people in pain to buy hundred dollar per pill painkillers, while arresting the person down the street and imprisoning them for buying the same substance.

That position is not the conservative position... it is the pro Pharmeceutical lobbyist position.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
... Regardless, this is a non-issue, since Paul wants to get to the heart of the matter. His platform:.

Thats fine and dandy, but until the federal govt - which may also require cooperations of the House and Senate - until the Feds do the job, the States must start doing it.

Yeah, the party might have been around, but THIS platform was adopted in September 2011. And Paul would still agree with MOST of what it says...

Yes - the current platform was adopted in Sep '11 - but it is the same basic platform that we have had for decades. As with any organization - it needs some fine tuning and updating as events unfold.
For example - in 1965 there would have been no need to include a clause on airport security.

So fine - Paul might agree with MOST of the CPNY, But what about YOU- what parts do you DISAGREE WITH?
(other than what is listed below)


We are NOT progressives; we do NOT believe in an "evolving" constitution!!! What a reprehensible idea! ...

Actually we do have a "evolving" constitution. Its called Amendments!!

Now I will agree that I do not like the courts "legislating"

The Federal government is NOT enumerated power to engage in a multi-billion dollar drug war. Thus, it is a state issue. ...

The Feds should be involved when it crosses State / International borders
 

NiteShift

New Member
Havensdad said:
Regardless, this is a non-issue, since Paul wants to get to the heart of the matter. His platform:

" 1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods."

Ah yes, the new and improved Paul platform. Great stuff.

But when he ran as a Libertarian in 1988, he said, “As in our country’s first 150 years, there shouldn’t be any immigration policy at all. We should welcome everyone who wants to come here and work.”, and he advocated the elimination of the Border Patrol.

Paul has voted against using the military on the border many times (H.R. 1815, H.R. 4200,H.R. 1588, H.R. 4546..etc).

Paul voted against H.R. 418 that would require completion of the last 3.5 miles of the San Diego border fence.

When he was interviewed on 20/20 January 3, 2008 and said he finds a border fence “rather offensive.”.

But sure, this brand new platform sounds just terrific. What makes you think it means anything based on his long record of opposition to border enforcement?
 

Havensdad

New Member
Thats fine and dandy, but until the federal govt - which may also require cooperations of the House and Senate - until the Feds do the job, the States must start doing it.

Not at all. As commander in chief of the armed forces, and the director of the law enforcement branches of the Federal government, directing the enforcement of immigration laws falls to the president. The proper response, when he does not do so, is to impeach him, and put someone in power who will follow the law...not abdicate federal power to the state.

Yes - the current platform was adopted in Sep '11 - but it is the same basic platform that we have had for decades. As with any organization - it needs some fine tuning and updating as events unfold.
For example - in 1965 there would have been no need to include a clause on airport security.

Actually, it is progressive in areas.

So fine - Paul might agree with MOST of the CPNY, But what about YOU- what parts do you DISAGREE WITH?
(other than what is listed below)

Their desire to abdicate state power to the Feds, and their desire to abdicate authority over Church ordinances to the Feds.

Actually we do have a "evolving" constitution. Its called Amendments!!

Now I will agree that I do not like the courts "legislating"

The amendment process was never meant to "evolve" the constitution. The amendment process is lengthy and difficult for a reason.


The Feds should be involved when it crosses State / International borders

No, they shouldn't. They have no power delegated to them to do so. They are engaging in an illegal activity.

Besides that, even in your scenario, homegrown drugs would not be subject to federal jurisdiction.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
We have gotten way off the OP!

The reason Paul will do as good as he may do in the REPUBLICAN Primary is because DEMOCRATS will become a "R" for the day to attend the REPUBLICAN caucus.

I contend that is dishonest.

Just the same way, as four years ago, that Rush Limbaugh encourage "R" to vote in DEM primaries for either Obama or Clinton (depending on who was leading) because Rush wanted to see the nomination actually made at the convention.

For anyone who thinks an open primary is not dishonest - then you would have no problem with me coming to your church business meeting and voting on issues.
 

Havensdad

New Member
We have gotten way off the OP!

The reason Paul will do as good as he may do in the REPUBLICAN Primary is because DEMOCRATS will become a "R" for the day to attend the REPUBLICAN caucus.

I contend that is dishonest.

Just the same way, as four years ago, that Rush Limbaugh encourage "R" to vote in DEM primaries for either Obama or Clinton (depending on who was leading) because Rush wanted to see the nomination actually made at the convention.

For anyone who thinks an open primary is not dishonest - then you would have no problem with me coming to your church business meeting and voting on issues.

If the government forced you to choose between two churches? Not at all.

As long as we have a state sponsored two-party system, it is not dishonest to vote in whichever primary has a candidate that you can support. If we eliminate the two-party system (which should be done!), then I might agree with you.
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
Actually, its not just democrats, but independents as well. And it is NOT mostly "fair weather" friends, who just want to get Ron Paul nominated so Obama can be president. There is a HUGE push for Ron Paul, from anti-war democrats who actually want him as president, cause they know he will shut down the war machine.

The fact is, most of those (democrats and independents) voting in these primaries are people who like and want Dr. Paul as president. And I LIKE the concept of open primaries. As long as the insiders have a strangle lock on the process via a two party system, we SHOULD have open primaries.

As far as the rest; it is crazy, to me, that people on here, and people in the press talk about how the republicans will "not accept" Paul as their candidate, yet every single republican I have talked to (in person), with the exception of one person, have openly endorsed Ron Paul. Most of them agree with his policy, and even the ones that are currently supporting other candidates say, "I chose candidate X, cause Paul can never win the nomination..."

The mass corporate media is doing it's utmost to make people believe Ron Paul has no chance. I believe the only folks left that actually believe that still are here on BB.
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
From the liberal Minneapolis Star Tribune:

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glfredrick

New Member
The mass corporate media is doing it's utmost to make people believe Ron Paul has no chance. I believe the only folks left that actually believe that still are here on BB.

Ron Paul does not want to be President. He wants to increase circulation of his next newsletter. Every time he runs he increases circulation. Last time around he reaped about a million dollars a year profit. This time he will reap a couple of million dollars profit.

And, the reason people are ignoring him is not some media bias (though that is certainly there). It is the plain fact that he is a liberal flake masquerading as a conservative Republican. Other than his stance on the Constitution (which he sees through a very libertarian lens) he is more liberal than Obama on many of his other platform stances, from foreign policy to drugs.
 
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