Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Does longtime Chicago Cubs third baseman Ron Santo deserve to be inducted into the Hall of Fame posthumously? After voting, please support your reason in a post.
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Who would we be comparing him too? 340 (or so) HR and a .277 average isn't bad, but not sure it's HOF worthy at this point. Am I correct in seeing he was a 9 time all star? And 5 gold gloves? That's impressive.
I can't vote in this because it's just not a clear Yes or No for me. I remember him as a player, but most of his career preceded my being enough on-top of the game to understand it. Nevertheless, the corner infield positions are the ones where the player has to have offensive production to be considered a star. Looking at Santo's numbers, they are fair-to-good overall, but he did play in a park in Wrigley Field friendly to power hitters. At that time the power-allies were 368 feet. So his mean season of 25 HR, 96 RBI, coupled with good defensive play, and consistency for 15 seasons is borderline Hall of Fame. He won 5 straight Gold Gloves, but note that his predecessor, Ken Boyer, won the previous 5, had offensive numbers a little better, playing most of his career in St. Louis, and he is not in the Hall of Fame either.
...says he played in 164 games for Chicago in 1965. Checking the standings, the Cubs had a 72-90 record. Uh, how did he manage that?
All-Star and GG numbers are less than helpful in comparing. In fact, I don't think they should be taken into account at all.
Fans put in many of the AS, and we've seen a bunch of times that fans vote for the people they want to see, not necessarily who's the best at their position.
And the GG is a nice honor, but statistically, it's nothing. It's awarded by managers and coaches who get to see them a few times a year. Most of the time, it's awarded on reputation and visibility. Adam Everett was the best shortstop in baseball for most of his career, but he never came close to getting a GG. Andrew Jones was about a 600-pound water buffalo in 2007, but he won his, too.
For instance, Ken Griffey Jr. was a great player and a very good outfielder, but he was never close to being the best in his league.
Heck, Otis Nixon was a better centerfielder (different leagues, I know). He just didn't make flashy plays, since diving is unnecessary if you're already underneath the ball.
Even if it was true, defense shouldn't get you within 10 miles of the HoF.
How was the AS game voted for in his day?
Who would we be comparing him too? 340 (or so) HR and a .277 average isn't bad, but not sure it's HOF worthy at this point. Am I correct in seeing he was a 9 time all star? And 5 gold gloves? That's impressive.
340 HR and a .277 avg was very good for the era. I think I voted no on Santo at one point, but I might be changing that position.
Number of times a player has been chosen to an all-star team is not a good argument for HOF-worthiness. Gold Gloves is a better argument, but when Jeter's getting Gold Gloves, it renders the award meaningless.
When comparing to others not in and some in, I tend to agree. I think he's on the verge of being HOF worthy.
I voted "yes" due to the fact that Santo was a five-time Golden Glove winner and voted to the All Star Game nine times. He was, in my opinion, the top third baseman in his era and one of the best to ever play that position.