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Running over
- Thread starter mountainrun
- Start date
C.S. Murphy
New Member
Let me add that I never look at my watch while I Preach and we don't have a clock in the Sanctuary. As I kneel at the alter before the Invitation I usually take a first look at my wrist and when I see something like 11:57 I always say thank you Lord.
Years ago before I started my first Pastorate I was called on to fill in at a larger Church in the next county, I had broken my watch the week before and hadn't replaced it, I was uneasy when I saw that they had no clock on the wall. My message seemed to go nowhere but when it was over everyone was very nice as they always are whether we do good or not, but as I reached my car I was devastated. My children and wife had got in before me and as I looked at the clock on the dash it said 1:15, I was so upset I couldn't believe it was true but my wife said I thought you would never finish. As I drove I thought how gracious and kind those people had been to not walk out or rake me out at the end. I decided that I would go strait to walmart and buy a watch. The trip took 20 minutes and when I picked out my watch I asked to clerk to set it, she handed it to me and it read 12:35. When I returned to the car the mystery was solved, my kids had been playing with the radio before I got into the car and had somehow advanced my clock 1 hour, we had a pretty good laugh on that one.
Murph
Years ago before I started my first Pastorate I was called on to fill in at a larger Church in the next county, I had broken my watch the week before and hadn't replaced it, I was uneasy when I saw that they had no clock on the wall. My message seemed to go nowhere but when it was over everyone was very nice as they always are whether we do good or not, but as I reached my car I was devastated. My children and wife had got in before me and as I looked at the clock on the dash it said 1:15, I was so upset I couldn't believe it was true but my wife said I thought you would never finish. As I drove I thought how gracious and kind those people had been to not walk out or rake me out at the end. I decided that I would go strait to walmart and buy a watch. The trip took 20 minutes and when I picked out my watch I asked to clerk to set it, she handed it to me and it read 12:35. When I returned to the car the mystery was solved, my kids had been playing with the radio before I got into the car and had somehow advanced my clock 1 hour, we had a pretty good laugh on that one.
Murph
SaggyWoman
Active Member
My pastor does not ramble.
His sermon of at least 45 minutes is 45 minutes of meat. Preach on, brother.
Now, on the other hand, I have heard some ramble on for a half hour and should have shut up after five. Go figure.
His sermon of at least 45 minutes is 45 minutes of meat. Preach on, brother.
Now, on the other hand, I have heard some ramble on for a half hour and should have shut up after five. Go figure.
Well since I was the 1st one to reply to this question and was not received exactly warmly by the original poster.I would like to thank those who saw where i was going with my answer....If you are going to judge anyone especially the Pastor on whether the Holy Spirit is leading the service then you better have a good Biblical leg to stand on. Sadly I too have been in messages and wondered if it was ever going to end, but the difference is in how you handle the situation. I do not believe God will bless anyone for taking themselves out of the services and then let it be known why you are doing it..this would definetly fall under ..sowing discord among the brethren...Proverbs 6:16-19..I am not saying that Pastors never mess up and get in the flesh but biblically you do not have to answer to God for the pastor but only for yourself and how you handle this situation..The proper way to handle it is to go directly to the Pastor, not in a mob mentality but in a one-to-one discussion, telling him how you feel and asking him to pray with you over the situation...Just remember as the Pastor, he still is going to be biblically in the right here and there is no scripture on your side...I know this is easy Preaching, Hard living but I am speaking out of experience as I have been thru a similar situation and I too handled it wrongly...
Ernie Brazee
<img src ="/ernie.JPG">
My, my, my, we say Sunday is the Lord's Day, then complain if have to sit for more than an hour.
What is more important than the preaching of God's Word?
Perhaps one rebels against the preaching because the Holy Spirit is making them uncomfprtable, so instead of rushing out the door, the route should be to the altar and seek forgiveness for a rebellious heart.
I don't attend church as a matter of convenience; rather, it is to receive exhortation, encouragement, correction, comfort, and whatever else the Lord has for me. The content of the message is more important than the length, be it short or long. Why are in some in a rush to depart from the place of blessing and comfort??????
What is more important than the preaching of God's Word?
Perhaps one rebels against the preaching because the Holy Spirit is making them uncomfprtable, so instead of rushing out the door, the route should be to the altar and seek forgiveness for a rebellious heart.
I don't attend church as a matter of convenience; rather, it is to receive exhortation, encouragement, correction, comfort, and whatever else the Lord has for me. The content of the message is more important than the length, be it short or long. Why are in some in a rush to depart from the place of blessing and comfort??????
mountainrun
New Member
Ernie--
=======
What is more important than the preaching of God's Word?
=======
Worship, Bible study, fellowship, praise.All of which is expected to be completed on time {complete with warning bells} by the pastor so that he can run over on his sermon time.
Our church does not sit for only one hour.
We are there for 2 and a half to three hours every Sunday. Not to mention Sunday night and Wednesday.
For those who have expressed the opinion that one should not complain about the amount of time that we give to the Lord on Sundays, I would suggest you give Him some time through the rest of the week also.
I am confounded by the opinion of those who believe that because someone thinks that the alloted schedule should be followed they are somehow less of a Christian or hiding some secret sin, and convicted by a sermon must rush home to hide from the Lord.
Those of you who pretend that you would sit through a three hour sermon on Sundays with no complaint are not coming across as believable.
There is a family in our church who supports a widow who is not related to them, sends a monthly check to an organization which treats lepers, tithes and works in several positions in the church.
Are these "mini-Christians?"
They are unhappy with the situation about the sermons. More precisely, the pastor's "I don't care attitude."
The husband is considering another church.
I don't believe this is a situation that can be blown off by a holier that thou attitude.
It seems that the pastors here do not feel that a sermon should run over to the extent that ours does.
The point that a few of you are not bothered by being cut short of time on your only day off {it probably isn't for you who think it's fine},
consider those who who ARE bothered by it.
I'm afraid the get over it suggestions aren't going to solve the problem of the simmering pot.
I don't want to see it boil over and cause a huge problem in my church.
That, however is where it is going.
=======
What is more important than the preaching of God's Word?
=======
Worship, Bible study, fellowship, praise.All of which is expected to be completed on time {complete with warning bells} by the pastor so that he can run over on his sermon time.
Our church does not sit for only one hour.
We are there for 2 and a half to three hours every Sunday. Not to mention Sunday night and Wednesday.
For those who have expressed the opinion that one should not complain about the amount of time that we give to the Lord on Sundays, I would suggest you give Him some time through the rest of the week also.
I am confounded by the opinion of those who believe that because someone thinks that the alloted schedule should be followed they are somehow less of a Christian or hiding some secret sin, and convicted by a sermon must rush home to hide from the Lord.
Those of you who pretend that you would sit through a three hour sermon on Sundays with no complaint are not coming across as believable.
There is a family in our church who supports a widow who is not related to them, sends a monthly check to an organization which treats lepers, tithes and works in several positions in the church.
Are these "mini-Christians?"
They are unhappy with the situation about the sermons. More precisely, the pastor's "I don't care attitude."
The husband is considering another church.
I don't believe this is a situation that can be blown off by a holier that thou attitude.
It seems that the pastors here do not feel that a sermon should run over to the extent that ours does.
The point that a few of you are not bothered by being cut short of time on your only day off {it probably isn't for you who think it's fine},
consider those who who ARE bothered by it.
I'm afraid the get over it suggestions aren't going to solve the problem of the simmering pot.
I don't want to see it boil over and cause a huge problem in my church.
That, however is where it is going.
If I am reading mountainrun correctly, correct me if I'm not, the issue for him is not the length of a sermon, nor the time invested in weekly worship. I believe he's trying to identify the hole that seems to be causing the ship of his church to sink and is looking for helpful advice and wise counsel.
If we are not focused on the situation that troubles him, he will go elsewhere to ask, and I applaud the decision to seek counsel/help here. What do we do with pastors who "get in the way" of their calling, and are unwilling to receive assistance or criticism from the congregation or from it's appointed/elected deacons/elders, then what?
In the church where I worship, our young pastor made it clear; unless we come to him with an entirely scriptural rebuke for his ministry, he will "neither broach nor abide any criticism for his ministerial duties." He requires complete loyalty from his congregation and will squelch any talk that amounts to the "gossip of mutiny." Unfortunately, many strong leaders and mature believers have left over this issue.
In the case of mountainrun, I sense a desperation and frustration. I hope I am sensing this correctly and also hope that it helps forward this discussion.
If we are not focused on the situation that troubles him, he will go elsewhere to ask, and I applaud the decision to seek counsel/help here. What do we do with pastors who "get in the way" of their calling, and are unwilling to receive assistance or criticism from the congregation or from it's appointed/elected deacons/elders, then what?
In the church where I worship, our young pastor made it clear; unless we come to him with an entirely scriptural rebuke for his ministry, he will "neither broach nor abide any criticism for his ministerial duties." He requires complete loyalty from his congregation and will squelch any talk that amounts to the "gossip of mutiny." Unfortunately, many strong leaders and mature believers have left over this issue.
In the case of mountainrun, I sense a desperation and frustration. I hope I am sensing this correctly and also hope that it helps forward this discussion.
Please don't take this as a personal attack, but just because you are not the only one does not mean it is not you. The problem may very well lie in the fact that the church as a whole expect too little of themselves for God. Maybe the entire church needs to do some soul searching. It is really not too much to ask (from God) for us to spend all day at church.
Ernie Brazee
<img src ="/ernie.JPG">
Come on Doc Cas, you let me down when I visited we were done before 1pm. Need to study harder so you don't finish so soon! LOL
Our church has a slightly different Sunday morning schedule that most of the Baptist churches I have attended. Our worship services run from 9:30a.m. to 10:50am and our Sunday school classes run from 11:00am to 12:00pm.
We usually have 25 minutes of praise and worship and then our pastor has more than 50 minutes to preach. We rarely run over. When we do, it is clearly a HS thing.
BTW, I note that you mention that your pastor always seems to "get done" on time when he has a prior committment. Interesting.
We usually have 25 minutes of praise and worship and then our pastor has more than 50 minutes to preach. We rarely run over. When we do, it is clearly a HS thing.
BTW, I note that you mention that your pastor always seems to "get done" on time when he has a prior committment. Interesting.
The tradition of "Be finished by noon" or the sermon being only 30 minutes or whatever is just that - a tradition. As others have said, some of these yahoos shouldn't be in the pulpit for five minutes because they aren't preaching the Word. If a preacher is preaching the Word, an hour isn't long enough. If the preacher is manipulating the time, simply doing time in the pulpit, get him out of there and never let him back. The time in the pulpit and in the worship service belongs to God. We are accountable for every second. There is no time for meaningless twaddle either in the worship or in the preaching. That's why preparation is so key (for both, on the part of both preacher and worshipper), but especially for the preacher. A preacher once complained to an older minister that his preaching was floundering. The older preacher said "Why don't you preach me one of your sermons?" So the preacher did. When finished, the young man asked "So how's my preaching?" The older minister keenly said "Young man, for the last 30 minutes you've been trying to get something out of your head instead of getting something into mine." Let them who have ears to hear, let them hear....
I've been hearing complaints lately from a local IFB church whose pastor cuts his sermons way short when the NASCAR races come on earlier. Surely WalMart has an opening for this dude....
I've been hearing complaints lately from a local IFB church whose pastor cuts his sermons way short when the NASCAR races come on earlier. Surely WalMart has an opening for this dude....
Ernie Brazee
<img src ="/ernie.JPG">
Unbelievable...I agree with TomVols
C.S. Murphy
New Member
More unbelievable is that I agree with you. Just kidding ErnieOriginally posted by Ernie Brazee:
Unbelievable...I agree with TomVols
Murph
mountainrun
New Member
The comment about NASCAR is certainly appropo here.
One of the times my pastor did manage to get done on time was because there was a race on that he really wanted to see. This he admitted.
Now, some here infer that they could listen to three hour sermons. However, they know full well that this does not take place in this day and age so can safely make the claim.
However, this was said of Martin Luther---
==========
He disregarded the scholars among his hearers, and aimed at the common people, the women and children and servants. "Cursed be the preachers," he said, "who in church aim at high or hard things." He was never dull or tedious. He usually stopped when the hearers were at the height of attention, and left them anxious to come again. He censured Bugenhagen for his long sermons, of which people so often and justly complain. He summed up his homiletical wisdom in three rules: —
"Start fresh; Speak out; Stop short."
==============
I feel that a good speaker should be able to feel the mood of his audience and should quit when the audience does... pastor or otherwise.
Now, do we really believe the pastor is being led by the Holy Spirit when he bases his sermon on a book he read, Prayer of Jabez in this instance, uses techniques learned in the seminary, {raising his voice at certain points merely because that's what he was taught to do?
If he is really led by the Spirit, why does he have to keep consulting his laptop, lying on the pulpit instead of the Bible?
Does the Holy Spirit always have exactly five points to make in every sermon?
If he is led by the Holy Spirit in his sermons, can we not add his sermons to the Bible as scripture?
Why is the overwhelming majority of the church unhappy about the lengthy sermons my pastor claims are inspired?
To boil it down to one question, what exactly is the role of the Holy Spirit in the sermon?
I don't need any Amen Pew responses from you who would claim that the people in this church are, unlike yourselves, insensitive to the Holy Spirit.
I realize this is a possibility, but not in this case. Maybe with some of them, but some of the most unhappy are also some of the most spirit filled people I have ever met.
mr
One of the times my pastor did manage to get done on time was because there was a race on that he really wanted to see. This he admitted.
Now, some here infer that they could listen to three hour sermons. However, they know full well that this does not take place in this day and age so can safely make the claim.
However, this was said of Martin Luther---
==========
He disregarded the scholars among his hearers, and aimed at the common people, the women and children and servants. "Cursed be the preachers," he said, "who in church aim at high or hard things." He was never dull or tedious. He usually stopped when the hearers were at the height of attention, and left them anxious to come again. He censured Bugenhagen for his long sermons, of which people so often and justly complain. He summed up his homiletical wisdom in three rules: —
"Start fresh; Speak out; Stop short."
==============
I feel that a good speaker should be able to feel the mood of his audience and should quit when the audience does... pastor or otherwise.
Now, do we really believe the pastor is being led by the Holy Spirit when he bases his sermon on a book he read, Prayer of Jabez in this instance, uses techniques learned in the seminary, {raising his voice at certain points merely because that's what he was taught to do?
If he is really led by the Spirit, why does he have to keep consulting his laptop, lying on the pulpit instead of the Bible?
Does the Holy Spirit always have exactly five points to make in every sermon?
If he is led by the Holy Spirit in his sermons, can we not add his sermons to the Bible as scripture?
Why is the overwhelming majority of the church unhappy about the lengthy sermons my pastor claims are inspired?
To boil it down to one question, what exactly is the role of the Holy Spirit in the sermon?
I don't need any Amen Pew responses from you who would claim that the people in this church are, unlike yourselves, insensitive to the Holy Spirit.
I realize this is a possibility, but not in this case. Maybe with some of them, but some of the most unhappy are also some of the most spirit filled people I have ever met.
mr
pastor gary shaw
New Member
As a pastor and a preacher, I would rather be a good pastor than preacher. I have found that if I do a good job of pastoring, the people will gladly put up with my 45 minute sermons (preaching). I wonder if the pastor in this discussion has visited or spent any time "pastoring" this flock? It works for me.
Sometimes there is a very good reason for people to be upset about the pastor running over...
Some people have obligations on Sunday afternoon that they have to meet. My father worked at an oil refinery most of his life and if you know anything about oil refineries, they are 24-hour a day 7-days a week operations. Chemical processes take a certain length of time and a refinery is not easily shut down and restarted quickly without danger to people and equipment. I remember hurricane warnings and people evacuating but some refinery workers had to stay to shut down *part* of the plant safely -- they had no opportunity to leave.
In my home church during the 1970s we had a preacher that would sometimes get on a tear and go nearly 45 minutes past the scheduled end of the service. My father was faced with the difficult decision of gathering the family together and walking out so he could get to work on time or racing home, skipping lunch and then speeding to work like a madman hoping he didn't catch any traffic or encounter any trouble during the 45 minute drive to the refinery. The refinery did not tolerate people being late to work. One got a warning, twice got a suspension and the third time you lost your job. He wanted to be involved in worship at church but he also didn't want to be disruptive if he had to leave. He needed the pastor to be respectful of his time since he had obligations to keep.
Be very careful about assuming that people are just being selfish or convicted if they want the pastor to finish on time.
Some people have obligations on Sunday afternoon that they have to meet. My father worked at an oil refinery most of his life and if you know anything about oil refineries, they are 24-hour a day 7-days a week operations. Chemical processes take a certain length of time and a refinery is not easily shut down and restarted quickly without danger to people and equipment. I remember hurricane warnings and people evacuating but some refinery workers had to stay to shut down *part* of the plant safely -- they had no opportunity to leave.
In my home church during the 1970s we had a preacher that would sometimes get on a tear and go nearly 45 minutes past the scheduled end of the service. My father was faced with the difficult decision of gathering the family together and walking out so he could get to work on time or racing home, skipping lunch and then speeding to work like a madman hoping he didn't catch any traffic or encounter any trouble during the 45 minute drive to the refinery. The refinery did not tolerate people being late to work. One got a warning, twice got a suspension and the third time you lost your job. He wanted to be involved in worship at church but he also didn't want to be disruptive if he had to leave. He needed the pastor to be respectful of his time since he had obligations to keep.
Be very careful about assuming that people are just being selfish or convicted if they want the pastor to finish on time.