RZIM Investigation of Ravi Zacharias

[Scott Downey]

Be VERY CAREFUL with your "holier than thou" attitude! I have seen this before, and it ends very sadly!

You have very little understanding about these things. By your attitude, you ignore a great deal of scriptural teaching. People like you who suppress that, maybe are the cause of weak people's faith's failing them, because they are not taught the truth about these things.

 

[Scott Downey]

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having …a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. — 2 Timothy 3:1-5

Yet many do continue to have MUCH contact, support and acclaim for such people. Wolves in the church... people lend them aid...like them, even the strange things they say, they like it.

Galatians 1
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

2 Peter 2:18-20
New King James Version
Deceptions of False Teachers
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

 

[SavedByGrace]

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having …a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. — 2 Timothy 3:1-5

Yet many do continue to have MUCH contact, support and acclaim for such people. Wolves in the church... people lend them aid...like them, even the strange things they say, they like it.

Galatians 1
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

2 Peter 2:18-20
New King James Version
Deceptions of False Teachers
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

 

[rlvaughn]

The actual Miller and Martin report is online HERE.

Puh-leeze! Rape?

The report has one mention of rape that I found with a control f search. In it they say that one witness they talked to detailed "many encounters over a period of years that she described as rape." While I believe the revelations of the actions of Ravi Zacharias are true and indefensible, I also think our society has really dumbed down the definition of rape. Often it seems to describe any sexual relationship a woman later regrets she became involved in.

 

[Scott Downey]

Thing is fake people follow fake messiahs. Like what Jesus says about the blind, they will be rooted UP, as the Heavenly Father has not PLANTED them. they are not the good seed planted by the Son of Man.

Matthew 15:13-14
New King James Version
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.
14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

The parable of the tares of the field also great example of this

Matthew 13:36-38
New King James Version
The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Those plants uprooted are the bad seeds which grow into weeds. sons of the devil, planted by the devil, they will be rooted up and thrown into the fire.

 

[Scott Downey]

The actual Miller and Martin report is online HERE.
The report has one mention of rape that I found with a control f search. In it they say that one witness they talked to detailed "many encounters over a period of years that she described as rape." While I believe the revelations of the actions of Ravi Zacharias are true and indefensible, I also think our society has really dumbed down the definition of rape. Often it seems to describe any sexual relationship a woman later regrets she became involved in.

Yes, takes 2 to do these things. It is called sexual immorality. A true rape has a definition and description given by God in the OT.
If it was not a rape, then the punishment for both is death, that has not changed in the New Covenant, but only the saved are forgiven, only they have their sin put away.

David had his sin regarding Bathsheba put away, David demonstrates repentance, which God allowed for him, but someone like Esau found none even through he sought it with tears, he was not granted repentance. Of Esau, God said that 'Esau I hated'.

2 Samuel 12:13
So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die.


Hebrews 12:15-17
15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.
17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

Malachi 1:3
But Esau I have hated, And laid waste his mountains and his heritage For the jackals of the wilderness.”

 

[SGO]

We are often holier than the next guy.

Every single minister of the gospel is a sinner.

Even if he was a "bad" person he did help a lot of people.

We really do not know the circumstances and he is not here to deny the charges or defend himself so he is an easy target in that respect.

People we often respect doctrinally often have some other person(s) attacking them.

And no one I know of really agrees 100% with any bible teacher that they have followed a while.

All we have to trust in is Him.

 

[Revmitchell]

Ecumenical False Prophet Dr. Ravi Zacharias
Zacharias false teacher web info.

Other thing, David repented publicly of his sin, I was listening to Zacharias on the radio, and this subject came up of these sexual allegations, and he never admitted his guilt, simply said the women was out to destroy him and he was an innocent party attacked because he was wealthy and she wanted his money, etc.... started talking of his despair over the situation, wanted sympathy from his listeners. Never ever admitted his guilt, now when David was confronted, he admitted his guilt.

So one was a liar, one was true to God. God is the one who grants repentance...
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Give me a break. Ravi may have been many things but ecumenical or false teacher are not any of them. Posting that garbage from the spurious website is not evidence of anything.

He may have been all that the accusations say he was. Doing an investigation and making accusations after his death not a good look.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes, takes 2 to do these things. It is called sexual immorality. A true rape has a definition and description given by God in the OT.
If it was not a rape, then the punishment for both is death, that has not changed in the New Covenant, but only the saved are forgiven, only they have their sin put away.

David had his sin regarding Bathsheba put away, David demonstrates repentance, which God allowed for him, but someone like Esau found none even through he sought it with tears, he was not granted repentance. Of Esau, God said that 'Esau I hated'.

2 Samuel 12:13
So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die.


Hebrews 12:15-17
15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.
17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

Malachi 1:3
But Esau I have hated, And laid waste his mountains and his heritage For the jackals of the wilderness.”

 

[rlvaughn]

I want to climb up on one soapbox before retiring from the conversation. I saw mention of the report over at SBC Voices. That is why I knew about it. The leaders over are piling on Zacharias while acting like anyone who did not know about this must being living under a rock. However, Ravi Zacharias spoke at the Southern Baptist Convention in June 2018, and none of them said anything, other than complaining about the time taken by the "celebrity" speakers that could have been spent talking about SBC causes instead. Yet the story of at least one of his sexual affairs had already been broken by their nemesis, Pullet & Hen (aka Pulpit & Pen) several months before then. I guess they were living under a rock at the time!

Now that I've got that off my chest...

 

[Aaron]

We are often holier than the next guy.

Every single minister of the gospel is a sinner.

Even if he was a "bad" person he did help a lot of people.

We really do not know the circumstances and he is not here to deny the charges or defend himself so he is an easy target in that respect.

People we often respect doctrinally often have some other person(s) attacking them.

And no one I know of really agrees 100% with any bible teacher that they have followed a while.

All we have to trust in is Him.

The way I understand it is that his accusers came forward threatening to go public if they didn't get money. I'm not going to read the report which can be little more than the uncritical reception of accusations of massage therapists who would have stayed quiet for the right amount of money.

Smells like BS to me.

 

[Scott Downey]

Give me a break. Ravi may have been many things but ecumenical or false teacher are not any of them. Posting that garbage from the spurious website is not evidence of anything.

He may have been all that the accusations say he was. Doing an investigation and making accusations after his death not a good look.

Information is out there, because of the things he said and taught, in the public record.
And people are going to understand that and compare it with Christian doctrines, and they are going to make some conclusions.

 

[Scott Downey]

evidence of career-long deceit, they guy lied about his life, profession, his employment.
RaviWatch - Investigating the false claims of evangelist Ravi Zacharias

 

[Aaron]

Almighty God is!

*sigh*

God is the only offended party in any sin Psalms 51:4 .

But He's not the only damaged party, and the one who is most damaged is not a massage parlor floozie, but his wife.

I think you knew what I meant. You just like to make show of devotion.

 

[Scott Downey]

Late prominent Indian-American preacher kept nude photos of women: report

Money and Sex, the downfall of many men in ministry.

etc...etc...

According to Martin & Miller, the data included amorous communications with numerous women, and more than 200 photographs of women.
Among the photos were six of Lori Anne Thompson – a Canadian woman who has contended that Zacharias “groomed” her into engaging in sexually explicit online conversations and eventually sending indecent photos.
In 2017, Thompson and her husband sent Zacharias a letter demanding US$5 million in exchange for a release of claims against him and the ministry. In response, Zacharias sued the Thompsons for extortion, but he soon dropped that lawsuit and the parties eventually reached a private settlement.
Martin & Miller said Thompson’s allegations of being exploited were strengthened by the findings on Zacharias’ communications with other women, as well as his evasive and angry responses when asked about his phone records at the time of the extortion lawsuit.

 

[SGO]

Hey, all you guys who understand morals and the human condition.
Help me out in the thread "The Person and The Work" where I ask a question along this river but no one has had an impetus to reply.
The Person and The Work

 

[SavedByGrace]

evidence of career-long deceit, they guy lied about his life, profession, his employment.
RaviWatch - Investigating the false claims of evangelist Ravi Zacharias

Are you better than Ravi?

 

[Scarlett O.]

2 Samuel 12:13
So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die.

There are things worse than death, you know. You conveniently cherry-picked a single verse from a context that teaches far more..

No, God did not kill David.

He killed David's baby in David's place. Someone had to die for that great sin of David's. So says scripture.

2 Samuel 12:13b-14 = Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the Lord, the son born to you will die.”

Also, in the verses just prior to the one you cited - David was told that from then on the "sword would never depart from his house", God said to David, "I will raise up an evil out of your own house." That evil was his son who would sleep with David's concubines in public as David was running in fear out of the country - as God said it had to be because David's sinned privately. He would be mocked in public.

The entire rest of 2 Samuel is sorrow and sadness.

Don't think David wasn't punished just because God didn't kill him. As I said, there are things worse than death.

 

[Scott Downey]

There are things worse than death, you know. You conveniently cherry-picked a single verse from a context that teaches far more..

No, God did not kill David.

He killed David's baby in David's place. Someone had to die for that great sin of David's. So says scripture.

2 Samuel 12:13b-14 = Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the Lord, the son born to you will die.”

Also, in the verses just prior to the one you cited - David was told that from then on the "sword would never depart from his house", God said to David, "I will raise up an evil out of your own house." That evil was his son who would sleep with David's concubines in public as David was running in fear out of the country - as God said it had to be because David's sinned privately. He would be mocked in public.

The entire rest of 2 Samuel is sorrow and sadness.

Don't think David wasn't punished just because God didn't kill him. As I said, there are things worse than death.

Not cherry picked, my point was clearly made, God forgave David his sins. While others sins God does not forgive. What your bringing up is just the troublesome repercussive effects of sins, which was not part of my discussion. Why muddy the waters with your comment? You add and add and add doctrine after doctrine, while true, is not part of the point, Just copy and past the whole bible in every post, taken to the logical end.

 

[Scarlett O.]

What your bringing up is just the troublesome repercussive effects of sins

"Troublesome repercussive effects"? I think you make light of how David suffered and his family suffered for what he did.