S O S

[agedman]

If one looks up "Substitution" in the Scriptures, is there anything concerning the Christ on the Cross?

If one looks up "Satisfaction" in the Scriptures, is there anything concerning the Christ on the Cross?

Are these words interchangeable?

Do the Scriptures show them interchangeable?

Be sure your post can be documented with Scripture, or it is to be considered merely opinion.

 

[SavedByGrace]

If one looks up "Substitution" in the Scriptures, is there anything concerning the Christ on the Cross?

If one looks up "Satisfaction" in the Scriptures, is there anything concerning the Christ on the Cross?

Are these words interchangeable?

Do the Scriptures show them interchangeable?

Be sure your post can be documented with Scripture, or it is to be considered merely opinion.

Can you find the word "Trinity" anywhere in Scripture?

 

[agedman]

Can you find the word "Trinity" anywhere in Scripture?

What has that to do with the OP?

You have something from Scripture that applies?

 

[SavedByGrace]

What has that to do with the OP?

You have something from Scripture that applies?

Both the words, Substitution and Satisfaction, like Trinity, are not in the Bible, but do define what the Bible says. As does PSA.

 

[agedman]

Both the words, Substitution and Satisfaction, like Trinity, are not in the Bible, but do define what the Bible says. As does PSA.

Are you certain?

I admit substitution isn’t, but satisfaction? Hmmmm

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you certain?

I admit substitution isn’t, but satisfaction? Hmmmm

Romans 3:25
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Propitiation : halismos - to appease or expiate.


ap·pease
/əˈpēz/
verb

• 1. pacify or placate (someone) by acceding to their demands: "amendments have been added to appease local pressure groups" conciliateplacatepacifymake peace withprovokeinflame
• 2. relieve or satisfy (a demand or a feeling): "we give to charity because it appeases our guilt"

 

[canadyjd]

Romans 3:25
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Propitiation : halismos - to appease or expiate.


ap·pease
/əˈpēz/
verb

• 
  
  
  • 1. pacify or placate (someone) by acceding to their demands: "amendments have been added to appease local pressure groups" conciliateplacatepacifymake peace withprovokeinflame
  • 2. relieve or satisfy (a demand or a feeling): "we give to charity because it appeases our guilt"

Your post is correct, of course. Expect your post to be dismissed out of hand as “opinion”.

Peace to you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your post is correct, of course. Expect your post to be dismissed out of hand as “opinion”.

Peace to you

Thank you!!

Not sure how that is opinion. But I guess you will only see what you want to see.

And to be honest. I expect it also. Which is sad!!

 

[agedman]

Romans 3:25
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Propitiation : halismos - to appease or expiate.


ap·pease
/əˈpēz/
verb

• 
  
  
  • 1. pacify or placate (someone) by acceding to their demands: "amendments have been added to appease local pressure groups" conciliateplacatepacifymake peace withprovokeinflame
  • 2. relieve or satisfy (a demand or a feeling): "we give to charity because it appeases our guilt"

So, which are you supporting?

Substitution or satisfaction.

Propitiation can fit either, but which was the atonement sacrifice - substitution or satisfaction?

1John 4:10, 1 John 2:2, Romans 3:25 - use atoning sacrifice.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, which are you supporting?

Substitution or satisfaction.

Propitiation can fit either, but which was the atonement sacrifice - substitution or satisfaction?

1John 4:10, 1 John 2:2, Romans 3:25 - use atoning sacrifice.

I support both

Christ became our substitute, and by it, satisfied The fathers justice.

 

[agedman]

I support both

Christ became our substitute, and by it, satisfied The fathers justice.

Can you give a specific verse in which Christ was a substitute?

The reason of this thread is to find Scripture proof of the actual use of substitute and satisfaction.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Can you give a specific verse in which Christ was a substitute?

The reason of this thread is to find Scripture proof of the actual use of substitute and satisfaction.

ever heard the word redemption.

How is one redeemed?

What did the Law teach us about the lamb being slaughtered as a substitute for the sin of the people?

once again, You can;t find the word trinity in the bible. Just because you do not see it word for word does not make it false.

 

[agedman]

ever heard the word redemption.

How is one redeemed?

What did the Law teach us about the lamb being slaughtered as a substitute for the sin of the people?

once again, You can;t find the word trinity in the bible. Just because you do not see it word for word does not make it false.

The word trinity is found, but not in English. Elohim is pural, "let us..." Yet, God is singular. Also, in Matthew 22:43,4 we see the Three used by Jesus, "Spirit, Lord, Lord." It is also portrayed in the conversation with Mary in Luke 1:35. So, unlike the typical unlearned who make an unfounded claim concerning the word trinity, It indeed does occur both in statement and in portrayal.

Now, I have looked throughout the OT, and cannot find the atonement sacrifice being a substitute for the sin of the people.

The blood was used as an atonement sacrifice in which was satisfactory to God. When it was not because either the High Priest and/or the blood was unworthy, Death occurred. There is satisfaction, but not substitution.

Some would point to the "scapegoat" but that was again not substitution, for the Scripture describes it as transfer by the high priest putting the hands on the head and confessing all the iniquities of the people.

How then is one redeemed?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The word trinity is found, but not in English. Elohim is pural, "let us..." Yet, God is singular. Also, in Matthew 22:43,4 we see the Three used by Jesus, "Spirit, Lord, Lord." It is also portrayed in the conversation with Mary in Luke 1:35. So, unlike the typical unlearned who make an unfounded claim concerning the word trinity, It indeed does occur both in statement and in portrayal.

So it is there. But not word for word. But yet you believe it.

But you want to sit here and argue with me about another word. Because you can;t see it. Even thought it is there.

Now, I have looked throughout the OT, and cannot find the atonement sacrifice being a substitute for the sin of the people.

So you never heard of the day of atonement?

You never heard of sin offerings?

Lev 16: 6 “Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house.

15 “Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, bring its blood inside the veil, do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. 16 So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

The blood was used as an atonement sacrifice in which was satisfactory to God. When it was not because either the High Priest and/or the blood was unworthy, Death occurred. There is satisfaction, but not substitution.

If there was no substitution. there is no satisfaction

The animal; gave its life for the sin of Arron, and the people.

Some would point to the "scapegoat" but that was again not substitution, for the Scripture describes it as transfer by the high priest putting the hands on the head and confessing all the iniquities of the people.

How then is one redeemed?

lol. I am sorry. But I must move on.. You will only see what you want to see. I see no point in continuing this discussion. As it will not be fruitful.

 

[agedman]

So it is there. But not word for word. But yet you believe it.

But you want to sit here and argue with me about another word. Because you can;t see it. Even thought it is there.


So you never heard of the day of atonement?

You never heard of sin offerings?

Lev 16: 6 “Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house.

15 “Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, bring its blood inside the veil, do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. 16 So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness.


If there was no substitution. there is no satisfaction

The animal; gave its life for the sin of Arron, and the people.



lol. I am sorry. But I must move on.. You will only see what you want to see. I see no point in continuing this discussion. As it will not be fruitful.

One point that I think perhaps will help you see the difference between us even more sharply.

Was the atonement sacrifice replacing anything in, on, or about us? If not it cannot be a substitute but a satisfaction.

To draw a sharper distinction, did Christ substitute for us, so that we no longer bear the penalty? Not found.

Rather we see in the Scriptures that the blood was not substituted, life was not substituted, death was not substituted, flesh was not substituted, pain and sorrow was not substituted....

However we see that by His stripes we are healed, and by His wounds we have forgiveness. His chastisement did not substitute for us, but brought us peace.

That which stood against us was forgiven, not substituted for.

The whole of Salvation is the work of not only satisfaction but redemption in which we are a new creation. Nothing of this world nor the fleshly of this world enters the Kingdom of God. For we are His workmanship. Flesh and blood of this world do not enter heaven, a new body He has prepared for us.

Do you understand now, that it is satisfaction and not substitution that makes all the difference.

Too long folks have been taught substitution thinking. It is error.

Satisfaction is found in the Scriptures not substitution.