SABBATH POLL REDUX

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by EdSutton:
asked, "Bro. Greene - don't you keep the Sabbath?"

His priceless response was "I keep every day!"

Well said, and I've never heard it said better!

D.L.Moody had a good answer for that bit eisegesis -- he calls it "bunk".

The point is that "God" is the one who determines HOW His own Holy Day is to be kept. IF we could leave it all up to the whims and "feelings" of man-made-tradition then YES - "we all keep everyday".

But "as it is" it is "obvious" that we do not ALL do as God said to do ON HIS Holy Day - which is to CEASE from all commercial forms of business - set aside our daily work and focus on a complete day of worhsip with God IN ADDITION to our DAILY walk with God - our DAILY times of worship - our DAILY taking up our Cross and following Him - our DAILY walking in faith before the Lord - filled with the Spirit "Christ IN YOU the hope of glory".

God is the one that sets this standard - not man, not simply "feelings".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html


Fundamental Baptist Institute
http://www.fbinstitute.com/

presents


THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17

.
The Fourth Commandment
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.
THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
.
HOW TBSERVE THE SABBATH
"Sabbath" means "rest," and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man. He blessed it and hallowed it. Remember the rest-day to keep it holy.

…

Mr. Gladstone recently told a friend that the secret of his long life is that amid all the pressure of public cares he never forgot the Sabbath, with its rest for the body and the soul.
•
When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday,
…
Make the Sabbath a day of religious activity. First of all, of course, is attendance at public worship. "There is a discrepancy," says John McNeill, "between our creed about the Sabbath day and our actual conduct. In many families, at ten o'clock on the Sabbath, attendance at church is still an open question. There is no open question on Monday morning- 'John, will you go to work today.'"

…
Someone has said that without the Sabbath, the Church of Christ could not, as a visible organization, exist on earth.
…
Parents, if you want your children to grow up and honor you, have them honor the Sabbath day.

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SABBATH DESECRATION
Men seem to think they have a right to change the holy day into a holiday. The young have more temptations to break the Sabbath than we had forty years ago.
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PUNISHMENT OR BLESSING?
No nation has ever prospered that has trampled the Sabbath in the dust. Show me a nation that has done this and I will show you a nation that has got in it the seeds of ruin and decay. I believe that Sabbath desecration will carry a nation down quicker than anything else. Adam brought marriage and the Sabbath with him out of Eden, and neither can be disregarded without suffering. When the children of Israel went into the Promised Land, God told them to let their land rest every seven years, and He would give them as much in six years as in seven. For four hundred and ninety years they disregarded that law. But mark you, Nebuchadnezzar came and took them off into Babylon, and kept them seventy years in captivity, and the land had its seventy sabbaths of rest. Seven times seventy is four hundred and ninety. So they did not gain much by breaking this law. You can give God His day, or He will take it.

On the other hand, honoring the fourth commandment brings blessing:
"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." (Isaiah 58:13-14)
…

? Hasn't the time come to call a halt if men want power with God? Let men call you narrow and bigoted, but be man enough to stand by God's law, and you will have power and blessing. That is the kind of Christianity we want just now in this country. Any man can go with the crowd, but we want men who will go against the current.

Sabbath-breaker, are you ready to step into the scales?
[/quote]

 

[Eric B]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eric B:
The SDA's position is that "The Law" is only "all the laws except for the Ten Commandments". I reject that as well,

Is that supposed to be a "quote of me"??

What about Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as youself".

DID "I" supposedly say "you don't need to keep that Law any more - just the Ten Commandments".

What about Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart".

DID "I" supposedly say "you don't need to keep that Law any more - just the Ten Commandments".

You need to accurately state the opposing view and then make a logical case opposing it - making stuff up wont suffice.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, you all basically handpick which ones outside the Ten you still keep. But whenever asked about the ones you don't keep (sacrifices, etc) SDA's come up with this division between "the ones that were in the ark, and the rest, called 'the book of the Law'". Now, I'm not making this up, because both of you have said this.

 

[BobRyan]

It is true that GOD had the TEN placed IN the ark and the rest of God's Word - at the time - "The Books of Moses" placed OUTSIDE the ark. But that does not mean that "God's Word was worthless" as you have supposed.

The RULE is "God's Word STANDS!"..

This is pretty harsh for those who have already leaped off the cliff of "ABOLISH any part of God's Word that does not please you if it is in the OT - including the ENTIRE OT if you please".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

BTW - how 'bout that D.L.Moody?

 

[Alcott]

Romans 14:5-6; Colossians 2:16... all the answer needed.

 

[Eric B]

It is true that GOD had the TEN placed IN the ark and the rest of God's Word - at the time - "The Books of Moses" placed OUTSIDE the ark. But that does not mean that "God's Word was worthless" as you have supposed.

The RULE is "God's Word STANDS!"..

This is pretty harsh for those who have already leaped off the cliff of "ABOLISH any part of God's Word that does not please you if it is in the OT - including the ENTIRE OT if you please".

You're the one leaping off the cliff, because no one said God's Word was worthless. HE commanded certain things for certain people, and there are also universal laws that apply to all. You make up these criterion as to which are to be kept today. You first speak of "the Law" which you accuse us of doing away with. But when we show you parts of that Law you do not keep, you make a distinction between the Ten and the Book. But then you keep some from "the Book" as well; handpicked out of it. Now, when you're shown this, you accuse us of abolishing the entire OT! That is all you can say, because you have been busted for making up your own set of laws, and then judging others for them. I on the other hand can explain the laws which I keep. There were seven universal laws before Moses, which God always expected man to keep. Several of them are the same as the Ten, and that's why you see them repeated in the NT. Then, they are also magnified to their full intent, so that is it much more than a letter of the Seven, as I pointed out on the thread about Ananias and Sapphira, and "which commandment they broke". As the OP over there pointed out, by the letter of the Ten, it shouldn't have been sin.

As for Moody, SDA literature rails on and on about "The false Sunday Sabbath" (even though most of us here do not keep Sunday as a sabbath), yet you keep using someone who does just that: make Sunday into the Sabbath. Once again, the historic Church has made a big mistake in speaking of "the Ten", but then changing one of them. It is the original Seven that carry on, now that the Old Covenent (which the Ten were addressed to!) is over.

 

[gekko]

which are the original seven?

the old covenant is not over. please provide scripture.

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, at least the vast majority believes in keeping the Law of Commandments and so do I.

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by gekko:
the old covenant is not over. please provide scripture.

I Corinthians 11:25-- In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2 Corinthians 3:6-- who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life

Hebrews 8:7-- For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second

Hebrews 8:13--When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

 

[gekko]

please refresh my mind.

law of commandments: is that the ten commandments?

law of liberty: what is that again?

i can't believe i just had a mind block...

 

[Brother Bob]

TEN COMMANDMENTS

Ten Commandments

 

[Eric B]

The Seven:
Idolatry: Gen. 31:19-36; Blasphemy: Gen. 3:1-4, Murder: Gen. 4.8-10-16, 6:11, 9:6, Theft: Gen. 3:6, Gen. 31:19, Forbidden sexual relationships: Gen. 19:5-7, 20.3, Establishing courts of justice: Gen. 19:1-9. (The Gates of a city were where Judges sat to convene Courts of Justice), Eating the Limb of a Living Animal: Gen. 9.4-5, and we see a variant of this reiterated in Acts 15).

 

[Brother Bob]

link

TEN COMMANDMENTS

Ten Commandments

 

[EdSutton]

Sorry! Double post.
Ed

[ May 12, 2006, 02:33 AM: Message edited by: EdSutton ]

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by Alcott:
Romans 14:5-6; Colossians 2:16... all the answer needed.

Amen! I recall one time when I was baling hay for a neighbor, for another neighbor who had been seriously injured in an accident, and after church services, I proceeded to, after grabbing a sandwich, the hayfield, and baled all afternoon to beat an upcoming storm, stopping long enough only to attend evening services, and proceeding immediately after the evening services back to the hayfield, and baled till almost midnight, and finished up managing to beat the storm which happened around daybreak the following morning.
Another close friend whom I related this to a couple of days later remarked that she would not have thought I would do that "On Sunday??".
And what was I doing? I responded "Esteeming every day alike!" She happened to also be a regular member of our local church, and I remarked that I did not notice her at any service, and I was in both for a total of about four hours. Where was she?

Ed

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 14 "ONE man observes one day ABOVE another while another OBSERVES every day".

The one who OBSERVES one of the ceremonial Sabbaths in Lev 23 ABOVE another was the stronger one (if we contrast this order with the same order given for meats - vs vegetables-only in the previous Rom 14 example).

But the text never says "OBSERVES everday ALIKE". The term "ALIKE" is inserted!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by gekko:
please refresh my mind.

law of commandments: is that the ten commandments?

law of liberty: what is that again?

i can't believe i just had a mind block...

James 2 quotes from the Ten Commandments calling them "The Law of Liberty".

He quotes from Lev 18 and Deut 6 calling those laws "The Royal Law".

Kind of neat!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by Eric B:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eric B:
The SDA's position is that "The Law" is only "all the laws except for the Ten Commandments". I reject that as well,

Is that supposed to be a "quote of me"??

What about Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as youself".

DID "I" supposedly say "you don't need to keep that Law any more - just the Ten Commandments".

What about Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart".

DID "I" supposedly say "you don't need to keep that Law any more - just the Ten Commandments".

You need to accurately state the opposing view and then make a logical case opposing it - making stuff up wont suffice.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, you all basically handpick which ones outside the Ten you still keep. But whenever asked about the ones you don't keep (sacrifices, etc) SDA's come up with this division between "the ones that were in the ark, and the rest, called 'the book of the Law'". Now, I'm not making this up, because both of you have said this. </font>[/QUOTE]Eric,

Jesus Himself said which commandments we are still supposed to keep:

Mk:10:17: And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18: And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Jesus didnt mention the ceremonial laws there because they werent in force anymore.


Jms:2:8: If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well

Romans 13:
8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Seventh Day Adventists know that the ceremonial laws are no longer in force, because Jesus, whom they pointed to, has already come.

Claudia

 

[BobRyan]

The ceremonial laws "Were" in full force in Matt 10.