Repent-or-Burn
New Member
First, what day is it?..
Second, my chief question, "how" do we observe the Sabbath?
Second, my chief question, "how" do we observe the Sabbath?
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Sabbath
- Thread starter Repent-or-Burn
- Start date
Alcott beat me to the punch with those two self-explanatory verses.
Jesus is our Sabbath rest. I heard someone say (and I can't remember who it was) or else I read it (and I can't remember where) that the Old Testament Sabbath (Friday night sundown to Saturday night sundown isn't the REAL sabbath. It's merely a shadow of Jesus, just like so many things in the Old Testament were a foreshadowing of Christ.
Here's a commentary from gotquestions.com
Jesus is our Sabbath rest. I heard someone say (and I can't remember who it was) or else I read it (and I can't remember where) that the Old Testament Sabbath (Friday night sundown to Saturday night sundown isn't the REAL sabbath. It's merely a shadow of Jesus, just like so many things in the Old Testament were a foreshadowing of Christ.
Here's a commentary from gotquestions.com
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We don't.
I had an interruption. Glad I am still able to add to this. Aside from the two passages quoted, I would add that this commandment, being part of the Law is now superseded in Christ (He is our Sabbath). This Sabbath commandment differs from the other nine in that it is the only one that is not moral in itself. All of the other nine are "automatically" fulfilled by Christ-indwelt believers. This Sabbath Law is the only one of the Ten that was in itself a prophecy. When once the Person of the prophecy had come there was no use for it anymore.
Matt. 5:18 Actually speaks to this question of the Sabbath, as well as the rest of the Law:
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
The point here is that when any one commandment passes from the Law the others do too at the same time. Those who observe the Sabbath are obligated, not only to the other nine here, but to the whole corpus of the Old Covenant Law.
A final point against those who would wish to keep the Sabbath is the sheer impossibility of it:
1. There is no Scripture that changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.
2. Those who "observe the Sabbath" do not do it according to Biblical injunctions. The OT told the Jews what this observance entailed. They were told to do no work. There is no explicit mention about them coming together to worship. Modern Sabbath-keepers not only do work, they often make others (like waitresses, gas station attendants, telephone operators, etc.) do theirs.
Sabbath keeping is not only not required, it has been done away with in Christ, our Sabbath. Moreover, in our modern age, it would be nearly impossible to observe it like God commanded it to be observed - back in the day when He commanded it.
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Repent-or-Burn
New Member
I could see Colossians, except that I have been told: the Jews observed sabbath "days" other than the Sabbath it's self.
Romans.. why do you say that's specifically of the sabbath?
Repent-or-Burn
New Member
IOW, it might or might not mean that.
So, any other arguments?
So, any other arguments?
The Sabbath was the last day of the week (Day 7) symbolic of the day of rest God took after the six days of creation
It was observed from Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. Then the "First Day of the Week" began.
Jewish worship was on the Sabbath. Christian worship changed to the first day of the Week. This is also called the "Lord's Day" in honor of the resurrection. Both of these terms and practice of what we would call "Sunday" worship are clearly evidenced in the NT. (We all know the references of meeting on the first day, etc)
Many try to make Sunday into a "Christian Sabbath" - following some (but not nearly all) of the guildelines and prohibitions of that day. That we SHOULD follow the pattern of a day of rest and time of worship that has been since Creation is commendable. We try to do so to a large extent ourselves.
It was observed from Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. Then the "First Day of the Week" began.
Jewish worship was on the Sabbath. Christian worship changed to the first day of the Week. This is also called the "Lord's Day" in honor of the resurrection. Both of these terms and practice of what we would call "Sunday" worship are clearly evidenced in the NT. (We all know the references of meeting on the first day, etc)
Many try to make Sunday into a "Christian Sabbath" - following some (but not nearly all) of the guildelines and prohibitions of that day. That we SHOULD follow the pattern of a day of rest and time of worship that has been since Creation is commendable. We try to do so to a large extent ourselves.
The only evidence (singular) for meeting on Sunday - and I believe it is a stretch - is the one on Acts. That they met then on Sunday is a given, but that it should be a hard and fast commandment isn't.
I believe this is going back once again to commandments of ritual. Christ freed us from all that.
Once again, I believe that Christians meeting on Sunday is great. Or they can - if it fits local needs better - meet a different time. But there is a thin line, and an imperceptible progression, between a commendable practice and a - seemingly - God-honoring obligation.
The phrase "the Lord's Day" is a misnomer. It should rather be "Day of the Lord". That is the Day that John was present in, and that was when he was in the spirit. I suspect that it is the paucity of "Christian Sabbath" proof texts that induced writers to press this verse into a service for which it was never intended.
It is not at all peculiar to the style of John's Revelation (the book) that he should refer to the Day of the Lord with the words merely reversed. We do the same thing often in our own language: The godly man = the man of God.
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Repent-or-Burn
New Member
Repent-or-Burn
New Member
Bob and Asterisk, you believe then that we are to honor the sabbath on Saturday, right?
Also, "how" is it to be practiced?
Also, "how" is it to be practiced?
I'll let Bob speak for himself, but my answer would be that we need not honor the sabbath at all. All that is done away with in Christ. All days are alike. All days are KURIAKH (of the Lord).
Repent-or-Burn
New Member
O.K., I have the same question for you.
How do you come to the conclusion that this definitely includes the Sabbath?
Maybe it means days like Christmas, etc.
Thank you.
The phrase "the Lord's Day" is a misnomer. It should rather be "Day of the Lord". That is the Day that John was present in, and that was when he was in the spirit. I suspect that it is the paucity of "Christian Sabbath" proof texts that induced writers to press this verse into a service for which it was never intended.
Tom I agree with you on this so let me ask, Would the instructions from Christ, "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; " be relative to the chronology of the total book relative to the day of the Lord?
A little off topic of the OP.
Tom I agree with you on this so let me ask, Would the instructions from Christ, "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; " be relative to the chronology of the total book relative to the day of the Lord?
A little off topic of the OP.
Perhaps you can start a thread elsewhere, or I can.
Just a short answer here. The phrase "things which shall be hereafter" (Rev. 1:19) suggests more than the actual Greek warrants. "HA MELLEI GENESTHAI META TAUTA" means "the things that are about to happen (or, will happen) after these". Two things to note:
1. No break in time is assumed. The events "about to happen" follow hard upon "the things which are".
2. This necessarily, since the events here are of one piece chronologically, throws all of this in the past, at the time of John's writing.
So, the events about to happen are near-future from John's perspective, but old history for us.
I'm not sure what I want to know or start a thread about. Concerning the Lord's day/the day of the Lord which I assume was future to John when he was on the isle of Patmos. Is it history to us or still future? I guess I am asking if the book of Revelation was written with the "now is" as being the day of the Lord or as "I was on the isle of Patmos for the word of the Lord"?
I am not asking for entrapment purpose but just for understanding. I know your view of end times. That is if end times can even be used. ha little joke. I know very little.
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Actually, as far as the Bible is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first. The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest. The Acts reference has them together because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord’s Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.
Dr. Bob,
re: "Christian worship changed to the first day of the Week."
There is no scripture that says that.
re: "This is also called the ‘Lord's Day’ in honor of the resurrection."
There is no scripture that identifies the term "Lord’s Day" as the first day of the week, much less as in honor of the resurrection.
re: "Christian worship changed to the first day of the Week."
There is no scripture that says that.
re: "This is also called the ‘Lord's Day’ in honor of the resurrection."
There is no scripture that identifies the term "Lord’s Day" as the first day of the week, much less as in honor of the resurrection.