Salary Package Amounts? What is your pay?

[Hardsheller]

My tracks are all over that state and I still have ears there.

 

[mountainrun]

Ahh. Small world. Smaller state than it looks.

I believe he'll be out of the ministry in a few years. Or at least out of his current job.

There are always careless search committees to be conned.

 

[El_Guero]

For those of you trying to pull up the compensation study try:
comp study web page

there was a "www" in the previous post.

God bless

 

[j_barner2000]

I have been blessed with a nice church that has been here for 125 years this June. They provide a nice quaint parsonage and pay all bills except long distance plus give me $100 a week for expenses. God is so gracious. All of that with an average attendance of 20 or so adults plus typically 8 kids. I love my congregation and would pastor them for nothing if God asked me to.

 

[Taxman]

The laborer is worthy of his hire. To me this means that a pastor should be paid well if he is leading effectively.(Equipping, uniting, etc). If he isn't, he shouldn't be rewarded for failure to do his job. I do taxes for many ministers and the maturity and generosity of each church is revealed in pastorial salaries. The Levities recieved over 10% of what was recieved. I don't think Baptist are going to hit that level!Most say, "God, We'll keep him poor,so you can keep him humble"

 

[mountainrun]

Taxman, our new pastor will receive about half of our church budget as wages.

Hopefully he will be able to break our pattern of pandering to pastors and ignoring the needy within.
Individuals have always stepped forward when the church as a whole has failed.

MR

 

[PJ]

Good topic. I was looking for the compensation web site and found it within this thread. Thanks ...

 

[SteveD]

My basic pay is 43k a year with health coverage. The state we live in has to be factored in. The average rent for a one bed room apartment here is 1.000 a month.

 

[PJ]

(Oops! Sorry about the double post.)

Wow, it's a good thing rent IS factored in where you are, SteveD. It should be!

 

[TomVols]

1. A housing allowance cannot be retroactive, but it can be "grandfathered." If a board decided that it was set at X dollars for 2005, and it wasn't recorded in official minutes until say July of 2005, that's perfectly legal according to the IRS.
2. All ministers should have a housing allowance, whether you live in a parsonage or not. It's about as good a tax shelter as we have.
3. Any "expense" account not on an accountable reimbursement plan is a waste and is robbing the pastor of tax money. Churches need to adopt accountable reimbursement plans. It's sinful not to. "Expense" line items not on accountable reimbursement plans are taxed as ordinary income, subject to self-employment tax and income tax. Accountable reimbursements are not taxable either way.
4. Pastors need to adequately plan for retirement. Most do not and pay the price. Your churches need to be funding a 403b or you need an IRA for yourself.
5. Every minister needs to become his own tax expert. The overwhelming majority of tax preparers are not equipped to handle ministers' tax returns, and most tax software is not helpful either. The Annuity Board (now Guidestone) for the SBC publishes a great manual for ministers dealing with taxes.

I have consulted with many churches and pastors on taxes, salary packages, and accountable reimbursement plans. I'm more than willing to talk to anyone.

 

[TomVols]

Originally posted by NateT:

If I'm not mistaken, even if it isn't specifically called out as "Housing Allowance" a pastor is allowed to designate part of his salary as housing allowance...

You are mistaken The church, board, someone has to designate it. The pastor himself cannot designate it. It has to be an official arm of the church acting proactively, but can be recorded retroactively.

 

[TomVols]

Originally posted by rlvaughn:
No pay, no package, no problem.

Not quite.

Local churches have fallen under tremendous scrutiny for having "no pay-pastors" because on further inspection, love offerings, tangible items (four-wheelers, cars, etc.) are given in lieu of pay. Those are items that are subject to tax, and the IRS frowns on churches and pastors that deceive Caesar.

I'm not implying that's what's the case in your situation at all, friend. I'm just saying this as a general rule.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Taxman:
The Levities recieved over 10% of what was recieved. I don't think Baptist are going to hit that level!Most say, "God, We'll keep him poor,so you can keep him humble"

Actually, the Levites received 10% of what the people of Israel produced, not 10% of what they gave. This would be tantamount to the entire tithe of modern Baptists (those who actually give it) going to the pastor.

 

[Calvibaptist]

BTW,

Church age: 5 years
Church attendance: 70
My salary: $41,750
PLUS: Health benefits for entire family

Median household income in our area: $65,000
Price for a 3 bedroom townhouse: $340,000

 

[standingfirminChrist]

what is my annual income?

Now don't you folks start banging on my door for a donation once ya find out....

A whopping Five Thousand-Six Hundred-Five dollars for the year of 2005.

Oh well, God provides.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by Todd:
Our church is about 120 in average attendance. Here's my breakdown:

Salary - $25K
Parsonage Allowance - &4,500 (3 bedroom parsonage)
Social Security - $5,000
Christmas Bonus - $500
Insurance (Medical & Dental) - $4,000
Retirement - $1,260
Auto Expense (Mileage) - $2400
Convention - $1,000
Professional Expenses (tuition, books, etc.) - $2,500

I think all that comes to a grand total of about $46-47K. We don't need to allow our church finance committees to put a "bottom line" number underneath Pastor/staff salaries in the budget. This is the old package approach and it is dangerous because when your members look at the bottom line and see $50K, they will probably be tempted to say, "Oh, we're paying him plenty." Yet, they may not even consider that as much as half of that has to go for things that never even see your wallet. CHURCHES NEED TO MOVE TO THE SALARY/BENEFITS APPROACH AND GET AWAY FROM THE PACKAGE APPROACH. The package approach almost starved me and my family out while we were in South Carolina. If we are going to be faithful pastors, then we must be willing to lead in this area, even though it can seem a little ackward at times. We must teach the whole counsel of God's Word to our folks.

Having spent several years on our budget committee, and working in secular industry, I must disagree that there should be a total. I think the people need to know exactly what their pastor makes. If I am working in the secular world, any additions and perks are included in my salary total. Pastors also have a lot of non-taxable items such as housing allowances that we who work in the secular world don't get.

I calculated once that our pastor who gets a total in the 40K range would have to make 75K plus in the secular world to have the same amount of net pay.

The pastor who makes $95K is probably getting about the same as seculr job of about $140K or so.

This is based on my education (MBA) and working in the secular world and also working on our own church budget each year for our pastor. We feel the church has a right to know, because our pastors basic salary is $25K, but that's all he pays taxes on. His real gross income is close to 50K.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Phillip:
Having spent several years on our budget committee, and working in secular industry, I must disagree that there should be a total. I think the people need to know exactly what their pastor makes. If I am working in the secular world, any additions and perks are included in my salary total.

How much does your employer add to your salary for medical insurance, unemployment insurance, workers' compensation, social security, disability insurance. The answer is not one penny. Yet he can deducth them as expenses on his business. The only amount you pay is 1/2 of the amount a self employed person pays for social security. In some of the cheapest staes the burden to the employer is around 30 percent. So add that onto your salary and that is about what you should be paying your pastor for the equivalent education and management position. My first management position paid me about 100K with a lot of benefits and my first church which came later paid me 24K with no benefits.

Pastors also have a lot of non-taxable items such as housing allowances that we who work in the secular world don't get.

After I quit pastoring I went to work in one of the most expensive areas of the US and within one year we bought a home there. I most likely could have pastored all of my life and never bought that kind of home. Three years later we sold that home for almost 140K over what we paid for it. Is your pastor able to do that?

I calculated once that our pastor who gets a total in the 40K range would have to make 75K plus in the secular world to have the same amount of net pay.

The pastor who makes $95K is probably getting about the same as seculr job of about $140K or so.

Don't know where you get your figures but it always costs more to be self employed than it does to have your employer pay for your benefits.

This is based on my education (MBA) and working in the secular world and also working on our own church budget each year for our pastor. We feel the church has a right to know, because our pastors basic salary is $25K, but that's all he pays taxes on. His real gross income is close to 50K.

That's simply not true. From what I saw of what your pastors salary was you are not in compliance with the IRS. You cannot separate out social security for tax purposes. It must be included in his income and he pays the social security tax at the self employed rate of almost 16 percent. Your employer cannot pay your portion of the social security tax and leave it off of your wages. That was true before about 15 years ago in churches but it has not been since.

The last church argued with me over that point while my accountant for several years told me otherwise until I was audited and the church was found wrong. The same thing happened to Ed Young at Second Baptist in Houston.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Well, I think I can see why so many small churches can't seem to find pastors - not enough money to lure them in.

 

[PJ]

Our pastor is my brother-in-law and I love his family so. But he did not teach or preach tithing in the last 10 years and, boy, we now reap what we've sown.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
Well, I think I can see why so many small churches can't seem to find pastors - not enough money to lure them in.

I watched as two churches were running under about 20 people for about ten years and they finally gave up and shut the doors. When the new pastor came in after being closed for about three months both churches grew to about 500 within the first year. They are now running around 2000 on a Sunday.

Eight years ago the same thing happened to the church I attend. The church was fighting with about 70 in attendance and running out of money. The church did not know waht to do and the leadership gave up. Some newer people stepped up to the plate and stood by the new pastor. Eight years later the church is about 2000 and still growing. Some of the legalists are still there but have almost no voice. Some have changed when they saw what happened.