Salvation and knowledge of the Trinity

[Deacon]

I'm not quite sure how to word this question so I've approached the same question from different angles.

A. What does a person need to know to be saved? (and in particular concerning the diety of Christ, does a person need to know that Jesus is God Himself?)

B. Does a child have to understand the nature of the trinity in order to be saved?

Please offer detailed answers and provide a list of resourses that might be helpful.

Rob

 

[Jon-Marc]

Being born again (as Jesus said we must be) is really very simple, but people want to make it difficult by adding to it.

(1) One must realize that "I am lost and bound for hell."
(2) I cannot save myself because I'm not good enough.
(3) Jesus died on the cross to provide a way for me to be saved from my sins.
(4) I must call upon the Lord, repent of my sins, and ask His forgiveness.
(5) God, in His love and mercy, will save me. He promised He would, and His word is true.

 

[Deacon]

I'm not being aggressive, only questioning,,,

So then, would you consider someone that's a Jehovah's Witness to be saved?

Rob

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I'm not being aggressive, only questioning,,,

So then, would you consider someone that's a Jehovah's Witness to be saved?

Rob

No. On JW's. Modern followers of Arius.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I'm not quite sure how to word this question so I've approached the same question from different angles.

A. What does a person need to know to be saved?

Nothing. Nada. If you are talking of eternal salvation, or the redemption that Christ finished at the cross with His blood.

.........(and in particular concerning the diety of Christ, does a person need to know that Jesus is God Himself?)

again, if this is in connection with His redemption, no. the Bible says that God's redeemed will come from all nations, all tongues, and all peoples. Obviously, no one even had any idea that Jesus is God until after the Apostles began preaching Him as such.

now, when the gospel is preached and the Doctrines of Jesus Christ and about Jesus Christ is taught, the only way to be saved from an untoward generation and a false religion is to obey the gospel and believe in Christ in His totality, and that takes faith, and only the regenerate can exercise this kind of faith. Among Primitive Baptists we call this time salvation, and is different from eternal salvation which is absolutely OF the Lord and Him only.

B. Does a child have to understand the nature of the trinity in order to be saved?

same answer as above.

Please offer detailed answers and provide a list of resourses that might be helpful.

Rob

A few, more detailed answers which hopefully addresses most, if not all, of your questions. Taken from "What Primitive Baptists Believe".

21. Can you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are saved?

• Answer: In response to this question we would ask another; does any man have access to the Lamb's Book of Life? Of course there is but one answer. No man knows the names which are recorded there, so we must say with Paul, "In hope of eternal life" (Titus 1: 2) .We are confident that the God Who cannot lie is going to save those He loved before the world began, and we have the sweet hope of being in the number. When Jesus said one of His disciples would deny Him and was a devil from the beginning, they all asked, "Lord, is it I?" We must acknowledge that if some can be deceived, thinking they are a child of God but are not, we could be in that number. A humble expression of hope in the mercy of God is far more befitting the little child of grace than a presumptuous boast that he knows he is secure.

• 29. Do Primitive Baptists preach infants in Hell ?
• Answer: No, the doctrine preached by Primitive Baptists is the only message which leaves any hope for infants, the feeble-minded, and the heathen, most religious groups preach that one must hear and understand the gospel, actively obey the gospel, and manifestly believe on Christ, in order to become a child of God. But the great message of grace which is so firmly believed and preached by Old Baptists, declares that one may be a recipient of the mercy of God without hearing the report of it through the gospel and even without fully understanding what has taken place in his heart. If infants, the feeble minded, and the heathen must hear the gospel preached by man and actively repent and believe the truth, then there is no hope for them. But since salvation is by the sovereign grace of God through the work of His Son, we know that He will save His own regardless of their circumstances in life (Rom. 8 :34-39; Rom. 11 :28; II Tim. 2 :13, 16-19) .

 

[JustChristian]

This may seem like a fine point but I don't think it is. I don't think that simply "knowing" EVERYTHING about the Christian religion makes you a saved individual. You have to believe the gospel to the extent that you:

1) Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and

2) Experience a complete change in your life (born again experience).


I could learn everything about the Muslim religion just to understand why many of them hate everyone of a different religion but that wouldn't make me a Muslim.

 

[Deacon]

I really appreciate the responses!
Can one really be saved and not know that Jesus is God?

Can you add anything to this?

1. The deity of Christ and the unity of the Godhead is a central doctrine of the Christian faith.
This doctrine was codified very early in the history of the church.
Those straying from this orthodoxy are considered heretics.

2. Salvation is from God, not man. Nothing I can do or and nothing I know adds to it.

3. God looks upon the heart of man; no special prayer and no special knowledge is necessary to approach Him (Ps 51; Matt 5:8).

4. Trusting Jesus involves the understanding that he is alive and has the power to deliver.

Rob

 

[Jarthur001]

There are three things a person must understand and believe before salvation.

1 The fact of a holy God and all men are sinners.
2 God will judge sins
3 Christ redeems sinners

People are not saved from hell, but saved from their sin that places them in hell.

The elect will someday understand and believe these things.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I really appreciate the responses!
Can one really be saved and not know that Jesus is God?

Can you add anything to this?

1. The deity of Christ and the unity of the Godhead is a central doctrine of the Christian faith.

Nothing I can think of off the top of my head to add to this statement. Only that we need to remember that the doctrines of Christianity as we know it today did not even exist until after Christ started preaching, and even then, He gave the constitution. It took the Holy Spirit, Peter, Paul, and other Apostles to give the interpretations of this constitution.

This doctrine was codified very early in the history of the church.
Those straying from this orthodoxy are considered heretics.

some of those whom we claim to be our Baptist ancestors would be classified as heretics today.

2. Salvation is from God, not man. Nothing I can do or and nothing I know adds to it.

Salvation has two aspects. Eternal: all of God, conceived in eternity past, authored and perfected by Christ and Christ only, independent of anything from man. No prerequisites. No requirements. Nothing required of man. The redeemed are beneficiaries, all by the grace and mercy of the Triune God.

Timely: thru gospel instruction, obedience to the gospel, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. However, not all will benefit from the timely aspect of salvation. Not all will hear the gospel, not all will obey the gospel and therefore not all will enjoy the benefits of God's protection and blessing here in time , since these are natural results of obedience. Again, however, earthly conduct with regards to the gospel will not cancel the eternal benefits of the redemption intended for the recipient.

3. God looks upon the heart of man; no special prayer and no special knowledge is necessary to approach Him (Ps 51; Matt 5:8).

Unfortunately there are those in "Christendom" who do not agree.

4. Trusting Jesus involves the understanding that he is alive and has the power to deliver.

Rob

Trusting Jesus involves understanding and faith, the latter a gift of God. There are those who understand who Jesus is, and who profess to love and trust Him, but when push comes to shove ? Well......

 

[Shortandy]

There are three things a person must understand and believe before salvation.

1 The fact of a holy God and all men are sinners.
2 God will judge sins
3 Christ redeems sinners

People are not saved from hell, but saved from their sin that places them in hell.

The elect will someday understand and believe these things.

But if they are believing in a Christ that is anything less that God then there can be no redemption. For is the way you word it were true then Mormons are saved. For they believe in the holiness of God and that men are sinners that need a saviour. Their belief in God's judgement is odd (no Hell) but a form of judgement non the less. And they believe that Christ redeems sins. ARe they saved?

 

[Deacon]

But if they are believing in a Christ that is anything less that God then there can be no redemption. For is the way you word it were true then Mormons are saved. For they believe in the holiness of God and that men are sinners that need a saviour. Their belief in God's judgement is odd (no Hell) but a form of judgement non the less. And they believe that Christ redeems sins. ARe they saved?

I'm not personally familiar with Mormonism but I know that it has strayed from orthodox doctrine.

I believe that once anyone believes, the only logical conclusion they can reach is that Jesus is God.
It is a fundamental doctrine; without it one departs from orthodox standards.
I just don't believe that it is necessarily fundamental for salvation.

I'm eagerly awaiting someone with an opposing viewpoint, not for me to argue with, but to help me understand.
(I know you're out there!)

Rob