Salvation and the kingdom.....

[Gina B]

Thank you all for your replies, this is really helping.

Danette: I'd have to agree somewhat more with Chris on Galatians. Your postition in the end would have to say that we can lose salvation and not just our walk. As far as sanctification, I agree on that there's two different parts to it, and that's what the verses you brought up are about, but what about the verses at the end, where it talks about not inheriting the kindgom? He's got to be talking to others there. Unless you have a different definition of what the kingdom is, which was the original question I guess.

You did say "there is a way in which believers cannot inherit the kingdom of God"? But later it sounded like you said that you can fall from your walk but not salvation. I'm not understanding what your postition is.
Gina

 

[Danette]

Yes, I am saying you can fall from your walk and NOT your salvation. Falling from your walk, with the blessing that come out of a walk of faith, is what I meant by believers not inheriting the kingdom. We still inherit our heavenly kingdom. We just miss out on the "kingdom" on earth -- the blessings and fruitfulness (fruit of the Spirit) that we can have if we walk in the Spirit now.

Just to be perfectly clear, I am NOT talking about a millenial or amillenial kingdom, either.

Ultimately, we will inherit the kingdom of God in heaven, perfect and complete. It is already ours based on our eternal salvation. Between now and the time we die we have a faith walk through the process of sanctication. The extent to which we walk in obedience determines the extent to which we experience the blessings of the kingdom of God now.

Back to the original passage that says, "...those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" we all know people who are believers who have committed immorality, strife, jealousy, anger, disputes, etc. Since we don't believe that Christians can lose their salvation, this MUST mean something else. So in this context the kingdom of God means something besides heaven. The fact that this list is given as a direct counterpoint to the fruit of the Spirit and immediately follows verses stating our earthly struggle between flesh v. spirit, I believe it is referring to the fact that we can walk in the "kingdom of God" by faith or walk in denial of our spiritual heritage and without God's blessing on this earth.

I hope that clarified what I was saying and didn't confuse things further. I definitely don't think believers can lose their salvation!

-- Danette

 

[Gina B]

Thank you for clarifying! Yes, I get what you're saying now.

Gina

 

[Pastor Larry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Danette:
Back to the original passage that says, "...those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" we all know people who are believers who have committed immorality, strife, jealousy, anger, disputes, etc. Since we don't believe that Christians can lose their salvation, this MUST mean something else. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know these people are believers? Based on this passage I think you have to say they are not believers. I think you make a false argument here by this pattern:

1. This people are living a certain lifestyle.
2. This lifestyle can't enter the kingdom of heaven.
Conclusion: The kingdom of heaven can't be eternal life.

You should argue:
1. This people are living a certain lifestyle.
2. This lifestyle cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
Conclusion: These people are not saved.

I don't think there is one passage where the kingdom is indisputably anything other than eternal life in the kingdom of God. This "kingdom now" position seems not to be able to be reasonably sustained, at least if you use the Jewish concept of the kingdom. When Jesus offered the kingdom to the Jews, he was not offering the abundant spiritual life; he was offering the OT kingdom. When he says we are in the kingdom or will be in the kingdom, he is talking about reigning with him in the kingdom.

 

[Danette]

I believe the entire context of the passage clearly indicates it is written to believers. I used a bit of backward logic to illustrate what I already believe the passage clearly states.

When someone who is a believer thinks they couldn't possibly act in the manner described by the deeds of the flesh, we find believers who can't acknowledge when they are living in sin and who justify their behavior. I have known innumerable of them, including well-know conservative Baptist pastors and close family whose salvation I am as sure of as I can be of anyone's outside of my own. HOWEVER, that is not the reason I believe this passage is directed to believers. I base that belief on the context of the book and the immediate verses surrounding these.

-- Danette