Salvation by Faith or Salvation by Absolute Knowledge?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

What is the difference, and how do we hold our salvation? By faith or by absolute knowledge?

 

[Jedi Knight]

Knowing facts about salvation will not save a soul.

 

[Jedi Knight]

You posted 2 very diffrent questions.....how to be saved and how do you hold on to it.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Yes....but how does that speak to the OP?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

No, I have asked one basic question. Either it is one or the other. Faith and absolute knowledge are two possible ways to know or hold ones salvation, and never the twain shall meet in this world. Which is it?

 

[Jedi Knight]

Your saved by trusting in the facts of the gospel. How do you hold on to your salvation? I don't believe that can happen. That said I know there are people who read scriptures and come away with diffrent conclusions like they can fall from grace. I don't throw stones at them for this thinking,but I don't like when people belittle one another for not seeing it their way. Both sides have been guilty of that.:tear: My ONLY concern is that are they trusting in the blood of Jesus or are they trusting in them selves to be reconsiled with God.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JK: Your saved by trusting in the facts of the gospel. ......

HP: One fact to trust in is that if you do not repent you will not be saved. Another fact of the gospel is that if you do not remain faithful unto the end, one will not make heaven their eternal home.

You are still missing the point. Either we have and hold these facts by absolute knowledge or we have then via faith. It must of necessity be one way or the other. Facts, in and of themselves, still save no one. Facts musts be accepted, appropriated and walked in by faith until the end for them to have salvic value.

 

[Jedi Knight]

HP: One fact to trust in is that if you do not repent you will not be saved. Another fact of the gospel is that if you do not remain faithful unto the end, one will not make heaven their eternal home.

You are still missing the point. Either we have and hold these facts by absolute knowledge or we have then via faith. It must of necessity be one way or the other. Facts, in and of themselves, still save no one. Facts musts be accepted, appropriated and walked in by faith until the end for them to have salvic value.

Sorry,but I think you have it totally wrong.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

That is a kind way to voice your opinion. Seriously, I can appreciate such a response. If the Lord is willing, possibly we can walk a little further together? I hope so.

 

[billwald]

Why are we to trust what we don't understand when it comes to religion but this is considered a sign of ignorance and stupidity in other matters?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BW: Why are we to trust what we don't understand when it comes to religion but this is considered a sign of ignorance and stupidity in other matters?

HP: Can you give us an example Bill?

 

[hillclimber1]

That is a kind way to voice your opinion. Seriously, I can appreciate such a response. If the Lord is willing, possibly we can walk a little further together? I hope so.

Eph 2:8,9 By faith you are saved, not works. Faith, not absolute knowledge.. We don't have anything like absolute knowledge.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Hillclimber1: Faith, not absolute knowledge.. We don't have anything like absolute knowledge.

HP; I believe you are indeed right on target.:thumbs: There is an inseparable gulf fixed between faith and absolute knowledge. God has chosen in this world to hem us in by faith. Absolute knowledge of our final destination is withheld to be revealed only in the world to come.

Certainly we can know when our hearts are right with God, but such ‘knowledge’ is of necessity in this world by faith as opposed to absolute knowledge.

I used to have a book by Fosdick entitled “The Meaning of Faith” but I cannot seem to locate it. I remember it having an impact on my thinking concerning this topic.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Your saved by grace!

 

[Alive in Christ]

Jedi said...

Your saved by grace!

....through faith, and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God. Not of works, (such as my great knowledge), lest anyone should boast (of his knowledge as an example)

:wavey:

 

[Kathryn]

We are saved by the free gift of grace, trusting in Jesus Christ's promises, and not on our own strength , but on the grace of the Holy Spirit. We must have faith in God which is a personal adherence to Him. At the same time and inseparably we must believe all that God has revealed. Our hope is our desire for the Kingdom of God and eternal life with Him. Our faith must be "working through charity" as St. Paul explained. This faith, hope and charity come from God and are free gifts that we can accept or reject. Life in Christ is eternal life. We know we are in Christ if we have the Spirit of Christ in us.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Kathryn, do the words 'grounds ' and 'conditions' of salvation mean anything to you, or are you unfamiliar with the distictions? Just wondering.

 

[Kathryn]

"Grounds" and "Conditions" of salvation are unfamiliar terms.

You asked a simple question.
"What is the difference, and how do we hold our salvation? By faith or by absolute knowledge?"

Faith is the substance of what is hoped for and the evidence of what is not seen. Absolute knowledge we can not have.

We can have the free gifts of faith, hope, and charity however. We can have grace. We can trust in the promises of Jesus Christ, believing all that he taught and revealed.

We hold our salvation by holding faith and a good conscience. Certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith (lost it) by discounting a good conscience according to St. Paul to St. Timothy.

For our faith to live, grow, and persevere to the end we must nourish it with the word of God, beg God to increase our faith, and our faith must be "working through love", abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of the Church.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Kathryn: "Grounds" and "Conditions" of salvation are unfamiliar terms.

HP: Thanks for your honest answer. I see that as a clear defect caused by the pulpits of many churches.

Kathryn: You asked a simple question.
"What is the difference, and how do we hold our salvation? By faith or by absolute knowledge?"

Faith is the substance of what is hoped for and the evidence of what is not seen. Absolute knowledge we can not have.

HP: We are in agreement thus far.

Kathryn: We can have the free gift of faith, hope, and charity however. We can trust in the promises of Jesus Christ, believing all that he taught and revealed.

HP: If one says she or he has faith, hope and charity, does that necessarily mean they do have? How can I be sure that I have what I think I have? Is it possible to be deceived as to possessing what one confesses?

Kathryn: We hold our salvation by holding faith and a good conscience. Certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith (lost it) by discounting a good conscience according to St. Paul to St. Timothy.

HP: Truer words could not have been spoken. This idea that one can make shipwreck of their faith, even to the point of turning their back on Christ and resorting to their former sins and still maintain a viable hope of eternal life, is not found or implied in the word of God.

Kathryn: For our faith to live, grow, and persevere to the end we must nourish it with the word of God, beg God to increase our faith, and our faith must be "working through love", abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of the Church.

HP: Amen, and lived in obedience to the light God has granted to us. It is impossible to be sinning, and to say we love God. “Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Re 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Kathryn]

HP: If one says she or he has faith, hope and charity, does that necessarily mean they do have? How can I be sure that I have what I think I have? Is it possible to be deceived as to possessing what one confesses?


If one desires faith, hope, and charity, and we ask for it, God gives it as free gifts of the Holy Spirit. No one has to earn it. Just accept it. If one lives in Christ, he has the Spirit of Christ, and knows Christ as brother, and Savior, Redeemer and God. St. Paul says, "I know whom I have believed in." One knows if he really is a temple of the Holy Spirit because he believes the word of God. The Bible says, "Do you not know that you are a temple of the Holy Spirit". The Spirit of Christ is given to us by God. The free gifts of the Holy Spirit produce fruit in us according to the Bible. The fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, 23 Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. If the fruit is growing then we are living in Christ. We can know if others and ourselves are in Christ if we bear good fruit. If we mess up, we repent, confess and keep persevering to the end. It is a journey and a battle. No one is perfect yet. Only those in heaven.