Salvation by Faith

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Quote:
HP: Help me out here JJ. Pick a Scripture, any Scripture. Show us how the CONTEXT, in and of itself, establishes ‘faith’ to be speaking of something other than as it applies to eternal salvation.

JJ: That has already been done. I showed you exactly through Scriptural context how James can not be talking about eternal salvation because it contradicts Scripture in at least two other places if it is.

HP: What? Are you saying that the apostle James NEVER speaks about eternal salvation?

JJ: There is no magical formula. You just compare like Scripture with like Scripture. It's that plain and simple. But you can't compare apples and oranges and create some new fruit twist.

HP: The truth of the matter is if you are blindfolded by your presuppositions, you couldn’t even see the apple or the orange, let alone tell the difference between them or even see if one or the other is really even there.

Quote:
HP: Your last sentence is a presupposition, and one you cannot prove by Scripture.

JJ: No that is your opinion. Ephesians 2:8-9 proves that out. The text says "have been saved" that is past action.

HP: Now we know that you have one third of the picture of salvation down pat. It also speaks of salvation in the present tense, as it is still be decided or worked out by ones present actions, and it is spoken of in the future tense as we are all to stand before God in the end and be judged according to our works, whether of obedience unto life, or sin unto death.

JJ: When you go to the original language you see that the verb is a perfect tense verb, which means the action is completed in the past and never to be repeated again as the results of that action carry out into the future.

HP: You cannot even accept the common sense rendering of the English, let alone the GK. If your presuppositions blind you to the English, you might as well forget trying to use the GK to establish your point. You don’t need it. If it proved anything different you wouldn’t accept it either.

JJ: Eternal salvation is by God's grace through faith. Once a person believes (Acts 16:30-31) eternal salvation is completed.

HP: You don’t believe that for a minute JJ. MNan has nothing to do with his salvation, remember? Can a dead man believe? Does the possibility exist that God could have chosen us to salvation, yet we would fool God by not believing? Your lip service to man needing to believe is simply what it is, lip service.

JJ: Now we can either believe that or we can continue to toy with the Scriptures, because we don't like what it says and it messes up what we "want" to believe about Scripture.

HP: If telling us that the Apostle James does not address eternal salvation is not toying with Scripture, pray tell me what is?

 

[J. Jump]

You know HP you never continue to amaze me. You post nothing but nonesense, which causes me to stop addressing you and then make a post here and there like you actually are interested in the Truth of Scripture and I get suckered back in, but this last post of yours just takes the cake.

You have been given Scriptural evidence which is what you ask for, but instead of coming back with any kind of viable Scriptural refute you revert back to your childish rants.

If you want to believe that eternal salvation is a life long process then knock yourself out. Scripture says its not, but there are a great many in Christendom that don't care what the Scriptures say. And this here should tell everyone exactly where you stand on the matter:

You cannot even accept the common sense rendering of the English, let alone the GK. If your presuppositions blind you to the English, you might as well forget trying to use the GK to establish your point. You don’t need it. If it proved anything different you wouldn’t accept it either.

For someone to say something as ignorant as that is just silly. Ephesians 2:8-9 is in the PAST tense. And then you want to say that I can't accept the common sense rendering of the English. You've have got to be kidding me. The common sense rendering of the English is PAST tense. You "HAVE BEEN SAVED." Do you really not see that. I mean my goodness.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on you. Fool me three times shame on me. I'm tired of playing your games HP. You believe what you want to believe. Scripture doesn't support your views, but you are entitled to your views.

Unfortunately you are going to keep spewing your nonsense just like many others and people will keep falling for it to their own demise. :tear: Just remember you are going to have to answer for it one day.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JJ: You have been given Scriptural evidence which is what you ask for, but instead of coming back with any kind of viable Scriptural refute you revert back to your childish rants….. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on you. Fool me three times shame on me. I'm tired of playing your games HP. You believe what you want to believe. Scripture doesn't support your views, but you are entitled to your views.

HP: Now speaking of some sound solid Bibilical evidence, just brimming with reason and logic……….:laugh:

 

[Hope of Glory]

HP: Now speaking of some sound solid Bibilical evidence, just brimming with reason and logic……….:laugh:

I just looked back over 9 pages of responses, and know what I found?

I found that BobRyan, Hope of Glory, J. Jump, and a few others posted many passages supporting their views.

I found that HP quoted exactly two verses, one of which was quite correct that without preaching people won't hear about things (which has little, if anything to do with this discussion) and Philippians 4:21 in which all the saints were greeted, which has no bearing on evidence that all saved people are saints.

So, who has sound biblical evidence and who doesn't here?

If if I disagree with BobRyan's final conclusion, he at least gives evidence for his position. With that, there is a basis for fellowship and discussion.

Beats "No it isn't!" any day.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Didn't mean to ignore you. I thought this had already been answered, but it must have been the last time this was brought up. (Although it does sound good to say it, doesn't it?)

No one is saved by faith; they are saved by grace through faith. There is a "saving faith", but it's by grace.

There's the definite article with it: For by (in) the grace you are being saved. What is the grace? It's the grace of God that is referred to back in verses 4 and 5, which says, "But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved"

Grace is his part, faith is our part.

GE:

Thanks!
Grace is God's part - in condescending Love; Faith, the first gift of His Love, is Love's reward - our faith through which we appropriate God's Grace and returns His Love, and are saved.

We shall never stop singing God's praises!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I tried to edit - unsuccessfully: ...the first gift of His Love, His love's reward. -- the H in His Love's reward.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

GE:

Thanks!
Grace is God's part - in condescending Love; Faith, the first gift of His Love, is Love's reward - our faith through which we appropriate God's Grace and returns His Love, and are saved.

We shall never stop singing God's praises!

And still it's not quite right! Because Grace is God's part in condescending Love whereby and at which stage we are already saved --- unto faith!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

GE:
Grace is God's part - in condescending Love; Faith, the first gift of His Love, His Love's reward - our faith through which we appropriate God's Grace and returns His Love, and are saved

HP: If faith is the first gift of His love, can man resist having faith towards God, and if so where does man get the power to resist God?

How can 'man' appropriate something he has no part in, for as you say, faith is a gift of God’s love.