Salvation by Works.....or Not?

[standingfirminChrist]

Jesus' statement to the scribes and pharisees 'except ye also repent, ye shall likewise perish' is scripture enough to compare with several other Scriptures concerning Salvation to show man has to do something.

Man has a responsibility. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem; how oft would I have gathered you... but ye would not" Man must answer the call to come to Christ. The offer was offered to all Christ was speaking to that day, not just a handful; else Christ would have said as He did in another passage: "There be some of you here..."

Salvation is offered to all who will respond, all who will come to Him and drink of the water of life.

Man must do something else man will die in his sins whether he makes a profession or not.

 

[Dan V.]

Christ is not in that one until that one is saved.. That one is not in Christ until that one is saved.

Don't try to twist my words to fit your twisted view of God's grace to man.

You simply just don't know how the will functions. Check out Jonathan Edwards book on man's will. He explained best.

In the mean time (be honest), admit it. You are ultimately saved because of your willpower. God was not (ultimately) depending upon Himself to save you. He was (ultimately) depending on you to be willing.

Glory and honor go to you for having the goodness in you to turn to Christ. More than your insaved neighbor.

Dan V.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

You simply just don't know how the will functions. Check out Jonathan Edwards book on man's will. He explained best.

In the mean time (be honest), admit it. You are ultimately saved because of your willpower. God was not (ultimately) depending upon Himself to save you. He was (ultimately) depending on you to be willing.

Glory and honor go to you for having the goodness in you to turn to Christ. More than your insaved neighbor.

Dan V.

You just don't understand the depths of God's love. Check out the Word of God.

 

[Linda64]

You simply just don't know how the will functions. Check out Jonathan Edwards book on man's will. He explained best.

In the mean time (be honest), admit it. You are ultimately saved because of your willpower. God was not (ultimately) depending upon Himself to save you. He was (ultimately) depending on you to be willing.

Glory and honor go to you for having the goodness in you to turn to Christ. More than your insaved neighbor.

Dan V.

How about reading the Word of God instead of what Johnathan Edwards says about man's will. God doesn't zap us saved as you say. You are teaching something that is totally unbiblical.

We are all saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone--no works involved. Why do you insist that man's will is not involved to respond to the glorious Gospel of Christ? Get your nose out of Calvin and other teachings of men, and get into the Word of God--and YOU be honest and admit that you could be wrong with YOUR accusations of others.

BTW--who is your "insaved" neighbor?

 

[Dan V.]

How about reading the Word of God instead of what Johnathan Edwards says about man's will. God doesn't zap us saved as you say. You are teaching something that is totally unbiblical.

We are all saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone--no works involved. Why do you insist that man's will is not involved to respond to the glorious Gospel of Christ? Get your nose out of Calvin and other teachings of men, and get into the Word of God--and YOU be honest and admit that you could be wrong with YOUR accusations of others.

BTW--who is your "insaved" neighbor?

1) You want me to read your posts don't you, along with the Word of God? Why not Jonathan Edwards? Why not your commentary?

2) I never said that man's will is not involved (please show a post where I said that - verify your statements).

I'll say it again. Man's will is involved because God changes his heart.

One aspect of keeping the ninth commandment means listening to what the other party is saying so you can truthfulfully echo what he is saying. You (and SMIC) have not done this. You both bear false witness.

Why is this?

Dan V.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DanV: I'll say it again. Man's will is involved because God changes his heart.

HP: The irony of your comments is that what you can a will is no will at all, but rather just evidently a glob of tissue or that which resides in such that responds to force or coercion. That again has nothing to do with having a will. That is one bound by nothing short of necessity. A rock falling downward off of a cliff exerts as much ‘will’ as the picture you paint of man possessing.

 

[Dan V.]

HP: The irony of your comments is that what you can a will is no will at all, but rather just evidently a glob of tissue or that which resides in such that responds to force or coercion. That again has nothing to do with having a will. That is one bound by nothing short of necessity. A rock falling downward off of a cliff exerts as much ‘will’ as the picture you paint of man possessing.

You don't understand. The will always chooses what one desires most at any given moment. In that sense it is free - to choose what one desires, rooted in one's nature.

What study or teaching have you had on the will?

Dan V.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DanV: You don't understand. The will always chooses what one desires most at any given moment. In that sense it is free - to choose what one desires, rooted in one's nature.

HP: The philosophical notion that the will always chooses the strongest desire has no evidence to substantiate that point whatsoever. We are not mindless robots or puppets being tossed this way or that way by this so-called ‘strongest desire’ whatever that might mean. I suppose you are going to reason in a circle, and when I ask you ‘which’ one that is, you are going to tell me it is the one you choose. Prove it is all I can say.

We are men with wills that are told regardless of what seems to us to be stronger or weaker, always choose the right, the moral and the good. Never are we commanded to choose what at the moment is the 'stronger.' If what you are saying is true, man could never be held accountable, for the end would NOT be determined by his choice but rather coerced as a result of the strength of the ‘strongest desire.’

Desire in itself can be no more than the mere product of the sensibilities. Morality lies in the will, not the sensibilities. The will is involved in choosing between desires, not simply succumbing to what at the moment seems to be the strongest one.

 

[Linda64]

Man does not contribute to his own salvation. It is the work of God, "not of works lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9). God does not contribute to man's unbelief. That is man's work. God alone must do the saving. Man must do the believing. God must get all the glory and all the credit: "That no flesh should glory in His presence....That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord" (1 Cor. 1:29,31). Unbelieving man must take the blame. The believer saved by grace can gratefully sing, "To God be the glory great things He hath done!" "Oh to grace how great a debtor daily I'm constrained to be!"

God does NOT send anyone to hell--man goes to hell by his own FREE WILL--man CHOOSES to reject Christ, therefore sending him to eternal damnation.

Would you really like to know that you are one of God's elect? Then come as a poor sinner and accept His invitation; for He says, "Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden" (Matt. 11:28). If you do that, you are one of God's elect. Remember election is God's business, leave it with Him! Believing is YOUR business; do it, and God will not fail! Jesus puts the two together in one verse: "All that the Father giveth Me shall come to me." That's GOD'S part. But now notice the rest of the verse: "And him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out" (John 6:37). That's YOUR part! If you will come, you can rest assured that it was the work of God Himself which motivated you. --Dr. M.R.DeHaan (from Our Daily Bread)

I sought the Lord, and afterward I knew He moved my soul to seek Him—seeking me;
It was not I that found, O Saviour true; No, I was found of Thee. --Anon.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ is not in that one until that one is saved.. That one is not in Christ until that one is saved.

Don't try to twist my words to fit your twisted view of God's grace to man.

Indeed JUST as we see in Rev 3 "Behold I STAND at the door AND KNOCK if anyone hears AND OPENS the door I WILL come in and fellowship with him"

JUST as we see in Romans 10 "WITH THE HEART one believes resulting in righteousness...with the mouth they confess resulting in salvation"

Rom 10
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that [b]if you confess[/b] with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, [b]you will be saved; [/b]
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and [b]with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [/b]
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES[/b] IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

This free will "choice" condition is why we find in John 1 "HE came to HIS OWN but HIS OWN received Him not"

 

[Dan V.]

HP: The philosophical notion that the will always chooses the strongest desire has no evidence to substantiate that point whatsoever. We are not mindless robots or puppets being tossed this way or that way by this so-called ‘strongest desire’ whatever that might mean. I suppose you are going to reason in a circle, and when I ask you ‘which’ one that is, you are going to tell me it is the one you choose. Prove it is all I can say.

We are men with wills that are told regardless of what seems to us to be stronger or weaker, always choose the right, the moral and the good. Never are we commanded to choose what at the moment is the 'stronger.' If what you are saying is true, man could never be held accountable, for the end would NOT be determined by his choice but rather coerced as a result of the strength of the ‘strongest desire.’

Desire in itself can be no more than the mere product of the sensibilities. Morality lies in the will, not the sensibilities. The will is involved in choosing between desires, not simply succumbing to what at the moment seems to be the strongest one.

We don't choose our desires. Our desires fuel our will.

What study or teaching have you had on man's will?

Dan V.

 

[Linda64]

We don't choose our desires. Our desires fuel our will.

What study or teaching have you had on man's will?

Dan V.

Who chooses our desires? If we don't choose our desires, then we are nothing but robots. This does not make any sense and is not even logical.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DanV: We don't choose our desires. Our desires fuel our will.

HP: Desires serve as influences upon the will. Animals may indeed make their choices according to the strongest desire but man is called on to do the right and good in spite of the height of desires influence. Being a moral agent, as opposed to mere animal life, involves being able choose between desires. Moral agency and accountablity involve not allowing desires to control us but rather we are called upon to control our desires.

 

[Dan V.]

Who chooses our desires? If we don't choose our desires, then we are nothing but robots. This does not make any sense and is not even logical.

You chose vanilla ice cream because you desired it!

You can enjoy liver equally. Just choose to!

You can't love what you hate.

Dan V.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

One who does not know God cannot hate God.

 

[Linda64]

You chose vanilla ice cream because you desired it!

You can enjoy liver equally. Just choose to!

You can't love what you hate.

Dan V.

I did not hate God--even before I got saved. I never knew God, so it was not a love-hate thing. You can't hate someone you don't know. Therefore, what you are saying still doesn't make any sense. IMO, the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus' statement to the scribes and pharisees 'except ye also repent, ye shall likewise perish' is scripture enough to compare with several other Scriptures concerning Salvation to show man has to do something.

Man has a responsibility. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem; how oft would I have gathered you... but ye would not" Man must answer the call to come to Christ. The offer was offered to all Christ was speaking to that day, not just a handful; else Christ would have said as He did in another passage: "There be some of you here..."

Salvation is offered to all who will respond, all who will come to Him and drink of the water of life.

Man must do something else man will die in his sins whether he makes a profession or not.

Amen!

Preach it!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

We don't choose our desires. Our desires fuel our will.

What study or teaching have you had on man's will?

Dan V.

Gabriel?
Lucifer?
Adam?

Did God "create some with bad desires" and so their "Will was bent to evil"??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Dan V.]

I did not hate God--even before I got saved. I never knew God, so it was not a love-hate thing. You can't hate someone you don't know. Therefore, what you are saying still doesn't make any sense. IMO, the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.

Indifference is a form of hate. As our Lord said:

"He who is not with me is against me"

There is no neutrality towards God in scripture. This passage describes how we were before God saved us:

Rom. 1:30 "....Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents...."

Dan V.

 

[Dan V.]

Gabriel?
Lucifer?
Adam?

Did God "create some with bad desires" and so their "Will was bent to evil"??

in Christ,

Bob

The bad desires originated in Adam (not God) when he sinned. All men born from him are born with it.

Dan V.