Salvation from...MICHAEL???

[Marcia]

Alright folks, as I was perusing through various posts, I stumbled on this one, and I have to admit, I was a bit shocked and saddened that this subject of whether Michael the Archangel is Christ or not is actually causing division among Christians.

Let me ask you all something. Is it really that serious of an offense if someone chooses to believe that Michael is Jesus? Really now?

Yes, I would consider it heresy. Nowhere does the Bible tell us that Jesus and Michael the Archangel are the same being. Jesus is not an archangel, which is a specific type of being.

Here is the FULL article for those of you wish to understand the full position on the matter:
http://www.amazingfacts.org/Resources/Download/PBLib/BK-WMA.pdf

This is an SDA source. They also provide scripture for their false views on soul sleep, Jesus going into the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 to start his "investigative judgment," annihilation, and their belief that those who are found worshiping on Sunday when Jesus returns will be annihilated. They are masters at twisting scripture.

 

[Lysimachus]

Marcia,

Alright folks, as I was perusing through various posts, I stumbled on this one, and I have to admit, I was a bit shocked and saddened that this subject of whether Michael the Archangel is Christ or not is actually causing division among Christians.

Let me ask you all something. Is it really that serious of an offense if someone chooses to believe that Michael is Jesus? Really now?

Yes, I would consider it heresy. Nowhere does the Bible tell us that Jesus and Michael the Archangel are the same being. Jesus is not an archangel, which is a specific type of being.

To call that heresy is tantamount to calling God a heretic for calling the Lord "The angel of the Lord" in the sacred scriptures. This would make the accuser the one espousing a heretical influence, not the accused. Did you even read what Jofuss wrote?

Here is the FULL article for those of you wish to understand the full position on the matter:
http://www.amazingfacts.org/Resources/Download/PBLib/BK-WMA.pdf

This is an SDA source. They also provide scripture for their false views on soul sleep, Jesus going into the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 to start his "investigative judgment," annihilation, and their belief that those who are found worshiping on Sunday when Jesus returns will be annihilated. They are masters at twisting scripture.

I already indicated that it was an SDA source by mentioning that Doug Batchelor wrote it. The reason I linked it was because unfortunately the SDA's are the only ones who have written a thorough study to support what I believe regarding Michael the Archangel being Christ. If you know of some other good denominations that espouse this original teaching of the "many giants in the faith" from the days of old, then I would like to see them.

You sound somewhat prejudice. Is it so hard to just stick with the word of God rather than disregard a teaching merely because of your distaste for a particular denomination that may be espousing it? Slandering a denomination because of some of their other teachings offers no fruit to the table regarding the subject at hand.

 

[DHK]

Because I believe in baptism by emersion, and I also hold to many original historicist Baptist roots. Unfortunately, however many Baptists today have subscribed to Futurism. But I'm happy to hear that there are a great number of Baptists that have not let go of Historicism.

Welcome to the Baptist Board.
Your profile indicates that you are not Baptist, as does your posts.
The forum that you are presently posting in is for Baptists only.
Please abide by the rules that you agreed to when you first registered and post only in the forums that are for non-Baptists.
Thank you.

 

[annsni]

OK - TOTALLY didn't take notes on this but last night I heard Hank Hanagraff have a caller who talked about this very thing. He said that obviously, Jesus is not Michael the Archangel, but there IS a verse somewhere where it is actually referring to Jesus. Let me see if I can find any info on his site.

 

[annsni]

Ok - heard it again. It is speaking of a passage in Joshua (5:13-15) where it says:

"13When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing before him with his drawn sword in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said to him, "Are you for us, or for our adversaries?" 14And he said, "No; but I am the commander of the army of the LORD. Now I have come." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him, "What does my lord say to his servant?" 15And the commander of the LORD’s army said to Joshua, "Take off your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy." And Joshua did so."

The man was asking if this was Michael but Hank explained that this is most likely a Christophany - or a pre-incarnation appearance of Jesus.

He didn't speak more on the idea of Michael other than to say that Michael is an angel and Jesus is not - He is God.

 

[Marcia]

Marcia,



To call that heresy is tantamount to calling God a heretic for calling the Lord "The angel of the Lord" in the sacred scriptures. This would make the accuser the one espousing a heretical influence, not the accused. /quote]


Being "the angel of the Lord" in the OT and being a specific archangel named Michael are 2 very different things. Yes, it is heretical to say Jesus is Michael the archangel. An archangel is a created being.

You sound somewhat prejudice. Is it so hard to just stick with the word of God rather than disregard a teaching merely because of your distaste for a particular denomination that may be espousing it? Slandering a denomination because of some of their other teachings offers no fruit to the table regarding the subject at hand

It is not a matter of being prejudiced but of judging teachings by God's word. When one does this, the SDA church fails in many areas, as I mentioned above. I have also been attacked by SDAs coming to my website trying to convince me of soul sleep and annihilationism. They are very aggressive. Their church also joins in with cults like Scientology in lawsuits.

They are the ones saying I will not be saved if I worship on Sunday. How is this helpful? They are cultic.

 

[Me4Him]

Da 10:5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:

6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

Re 1:13 and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Re 1:16 his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Re 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.


Da 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days:

Daniel/John are both describing the "Same person", Jesus.



Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me;

From my reading/interpretation, Satan tried to prevent Jesus from revealing the future to Daniel,

and Jesus called Michael to come and take carry of the problem,

Michael assisting Jesus clearly shows them not being the same.




Gabriel is God's "messenger angel".

Da 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

Lu 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

Michael is God's "General" over his "army".

Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,



The "church", being the "Body of Christ" is protected by "Christ", (Comforter) the reason Satan (hell) can't "prevail" over/against the church,

With "No comforter" during the trib, Israel will need Michael to fight for them.