Featured Salvation: God's Choice, Man's Choice, Both Choose?

Ok, let’s take a look.

This was the question:

This was your response:

So, I think it is necessary for you to state plainly, yes or no, what you are saying. Is the gospel necessary for salvation? Or perhaps you are claiming everyone has had access to the gospel?

Both are problematic, the first far more so than the latter.

peace to you

 

Of course I never denied that and not sure why you think that question is necessary. quite frankly its absurd.

 

Honestly reformed people in these discussions get confused at other answers quite frequently. I don't buy it. If you are unwilling to engage. in what I have said due to you "lack of understanding" there is nothing I can do about that. My communication is clear. I cannot understand it for you.

 

I think that based on your post that you “do not agree” to the statement “the gospel is necessary for salvation and not everyone has access to the gospel.”

I have a lot of respect for you, but please don’t act like your response doesn’t need explaining or clarifying.

peace to you

 

First there is no mass confusion. Talk about exaggeration good grief. Why does anyone need to ask me if the gospel is necessary for salvation? That question and its need baffles me. Quite frankly its insulting. however, I believe it was asked not because its a legitimate question but as a debate tool. Those are two different things.

As for question number one I explained that earlier in which you all are pretending you don't understand. Yes the gospel is necessary. You all should know that about me. sad.

 

Great then we understand that this issue isn't just a matter of those who have the gospel but God sends the gospel to those who respond to Him much in a similar fashion as Cornelius did. Romans 1 makes it clear that He does not send the gospel to those who do not. Therefore its not about election as is defined by reformed theology.

 

What does “those that respond to Him” mean? Are you saying God sends the gospel to those that respond to God’s revelation of Himself in creation? Or, those that respond to God Holy Spirit conviction of sin?

peace to you

 

Romans 9:16
So then, it does not depend on the person who wants it nor the one who runs, but on God who has mercy.

The "it" refers to the prior verse and to the obtaining the mercy and compassion of God.

Thus trusting in Christ does not provide a cause for our salvation, as our pride might claim. In Matthew 7 folks who had engaged in what they thought was Christ's ministry, we told by Christ that He never knew them. Thus they had not been placed spiritually into Christ.

It is God alone who decides to save individuals, granting them His mercy and compassion, based on His knowledge of their faith in the Truth. Could He choose to saved someone who did not even know the life of Christ, such as an Old Testament Saint? Yes. Could He reject the "faith" of a well trained seminary graduate, who could quote chapter and verse of the various aspects of Christ's life? Yes.

 

We all believe God did all of it. Reformed folks just define what it means that God did all of it. The General revelation is there for a reason. The special revelation is there for a reason and it is those tools that God created that does it. Without those two revelations man would not seek God. Therefore it is God that does all of it.

 

Yea I know that is your position based on your reformed theology. I just disagree. Romans 10:17 tells us where faith comes from. That verse is diametrically opposed to the misinterpretation of reformed folks with regard to Ephesians 2:8-9. Further Romans 1:18-20 makes clear that what can be known about God is made clear to the lost so that they are prepared to receive the gospel and that is what brings it home. I have to follow scripture.

 

Yea I know that is your position based on your reformed theology. I just disagree. Romans 10:17 tells us where faith comes from. That verse is diametrically opposed to the misinterpretation of reformed folks with regard to Ephesians 2:8-9. Further Romans 1:18-20 makes clear that what can be known about God is made clear to the lost so that they are prepared to receive the gospel and that is what brings it home. I have to follow scripture.

 

Yet another taint so post, which demonstrates a lack of knowledge of what Scripture states.

Romans 9:16
So then, it does not depend on the person who wants it nor the one who runs, but on God who has mercy.

The "it" refers to the prior verse and to the obtaining the mercy and compassion of God.

Thus trusting in Christ does not provide a cause for our salvation, as our pride might claim. In Matthew 7 folks who had engaged in what they thought was Christ's ministry, we told by Christ that He never knew them. Thus they had not been placed spiritually into Christ.

It is God alone who decides to save individuals, granting them His mercy and compassion, based on His knowledge of their faith in the Truth. Could He choose to saved someone who did not even know the life of Christ, such as an Old Testament Saint? Yes. Could He reject the "faith" of a well trained seminary graduate, who could quote chapter and verse of the various aspects of Christ's life? Yes.

 

What Scripture says is that our faith (not some instilled by irresistible grace faith) is credited as righteousness. It does not say we are credited as righteousness, but our faith is credited as righteousness. Thus this act of God, crediting our faith, does not make us righteous in God's eyes, only that our faith is righteous, or right according to God.