Featured Salvation: God's Choice, Man's Choice, Both Choose?

The weird stuff that gets posted on this board. good grief.

 

My older sister was severely brain damaged do to a vaccine when she was 4yo rendering her incapable of receiving the gospel. So tell me, was she saved?

 

Like I said, I avoid declaring anyone saved or unsaved. Only God knows if Holy Spirit indwells.

That is completely in God’s hands. Salvation is a supernatural spiritual event. Just because she couldn’t “receive” the gospel in a way we can comprehend, doesn’t mean she couldn’t have “received” the gospel and responded in faith in a way God understands.

Peace to you

 

Therefore, salvation comes to us via Grace. I’m content with that.

 

I am confused by those who claim to not understand what @Revmitchell is saying. It is not all that hard.

Romans 1 makes it clear that what can be known of God is made known. This includes everything about God. Not just special revelation but everything, But these people in their own minds and desires chose to ignore it. Even though they know it (there literally is no such thing as an atheist) They can even know that because of the sin they commit, they are rightly judged.

Thats the first part of the gospel. You are a sinner. You have failed and fallen short of Gods glory. And because of it you are rightly judged,.

Now how do you respond to that FACT.

Do you make up your own God? (Paganism)
Do you make up your own religion? (Judaism, Islam, Catholicism) to make your relationship to God be restored your way (keep your pride intact)
Or do you respond to the fact of your sin, and seek out to find the answer? This is responding to what is known in a way God can now send to you the gospel. Because God knows you will respond.

In gen God told abraham, You people will not be going to the land he gave them for 4000 years. Because the sin of the Amorite is not yet complete.

There are places on this earth where the people will never respond to the gospel no matter what God does, God is not going to risk the lives of his people to send them to these places for naught.. So they will never hear (verbally) the gospel.

It does not mean they have a get out of jail free card. Because the KNOW the truth about God and about their debt to God. Yet they did not “act on it” as Revmitchel said

I have listened to missionaries who gave their testimony, and told us multiple times through the years. They went into an area previously unmarked by the gospel. And when they got there. They were told God was going to send them. And many received christ with open arms.

Its all there. You just have to open your minds and see. I was getting frustrated for the rev because these things can get frustrating..

If we can’t come to these discussions with open minds, and we think we are just going to school the other side. Maybe we need to back off.. Brothers should not be fighting like this, I see it in every christian chat room I go to (And yes. I do consider calvinists my brothers and sisters. We both believe we are saved by grace through faith and that when God says he will complete the work of salvation, he does it. We just believe this faith comes through different means.. (Although we both believe faith comes only from God)

 

You deny God credits our faith. That is Calvinism 101. There is no mystery.

Scripture is clear and your doctrines denial is clear.

 

Romans 1 also says there are “none that seek God”. Biblically, from Romans 1, the premise that God sees someone that is seeking Him and, based on their efforts, decides to send them the gospel, is not supported.

peace to you

 

You have it all sideways.

I did not seek God. I seeked the answers to my questions

1. I know there is a God. A creator. Who not only created me, but is perfect in all ways.

1. I am a sinner. I am guilty (I know this because of God, his word, his people and the Holy Spirit)

2 I am judged correctly and have no hope I am spiritually bankrupt (again, I know this because of God, His word, His people and the Holy Spirit (I know I have sinned and fallen short)

3. What is the solution to my problem? (

The tax collector did not of his own self effort save himself. He became poor in spirit and in humility fell to the ground because he in repentance and acknowledgment of points 1 and 2 had no place else to truth, and he CALLED OUT for Gods mercy..

The belief that a person who called out and begs for Gods mercy saved himself because of his self effort does not make sense period..

 

Folks, consider the statement, "I do not deny that." What "that" is being referenced? Unknown. Does Calvinism deny God credits (or not) our faith? You bet. They claim the faith we have was instilled by irresistible grace, thus there is no need to credit it as righteous, it is righteous because it is from God in the first place.

The list of Calvinism's denials of spiritual truths is long indeed. And their unrepentant denial of their denial is relentless.

They like to charge others with not understanding their doctrine, because they cannot defend their actual doctrine for it is unbiblical.

Calvinism 101 - Paul did not speak to new Christians as to "men of flesh" (lost unregenerate people) using spiritual "milk" the fundamentals of the gospel. Thus they deny 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

Calvinism 101 - God did not credit Abraham's faith (his faith) as righteousness, nope God instilled God's own faith into Abraham. Thus they deny Romans 4:5.

Calvinism 101 - Christ did not die as a ransom for all humanity, but only for the elect. Therefore, Christ had not "bought" those heading for swift destruction. Thus they deny 2 Peter 2:1.

I could go on listing verse after verse, but they will only post "taint so and Van is rotten for saying so."

 

You claimed people are seeking God based on God’s revelation in creation. I pointed out the passage from Romans 1, where this issue is specifically addressed, says “none seek God” based on the revelation of God found in creation.

No one calls out to God begging for mercy unless God first intervenes in their life through the power of God Holy Spirit.

peace to you

 

If you would read things I have posted you would see that God drawing people out with the Holy Spirit and his word and his people. And NOT JUST ROMANS !

And you would know I believe romans 1 is just one aspect.

Then maybe you would not post such things like this..

 

Please educate me by answering a question.

Are people seeking God based on His revelation of Himself in creation?

You appeared to make the statement that God sees people seeking Him because of creation and based on that effort on their part, God decides to send them the gospel, draw them and convict them by Holy Spirit, etc. Is that what you are saying.

A simple yes or no word go along way toward helping me understand what you are saying and keep me from posting “things like this”.

peace to you

 

I never made such a claim.

This just goes to show you have not heard a word I said.

I have never said anyone seeks God on their own part.

 

Ok, I’ll repost your post #46.

You began by claiming “Romans 1 makes it clear”… which seems to indicate you are basing what you are about to say on Romans 1.

You then say “they even know that because of sin that they have committed they are rightly judged.. that is the first part of the gospel”.

That equates the general revelation of God found in creation to the special revelation of God found in the gospel. You then ask how will the person respond to the fact they are a sinner.

You say “or do you respond to the fact of your sin, and seek to find an answer. This is responding to what is known in a way that God can now send to you the gospel”.

So, as you can see, I have read what you posted and I am attempting to understand what you are saying.

Despite claiming you “never said that”, it is clear you did. You claimed people respond to general revelation by “seeking” answers to their sin and based on that effort, God “can now” send the gospel to them.

Peace to you

 

This just proves my point.

This post shows that romans 1 causes us to seek the answer to a question. Not that we seek God.

If you are not willing to listen to try to understand what I am saying, I can;t help you

 

And so, are you acknowledging that you believe a person responds to creation by recognizing his sin and seeking and answer to some question and it is at that point “God can send the gospel to him”?

If you can’t speak plainly about what you are trying to say, I can’t help but think you believe what you said.

Peace to you