Hi,
I'm a Catholic. I hope Catholic is considered a 'christian denomination' for purposes of this board. I wanted to come here and talk because I have a lot of respect for the Christian example I've seen in the baptists I've met.
I'm having trouble understanding what is so different between Catholic and Baptist beliefs about salvation regarding faith and works. Here's what I believe, isn't this basically the same as what Baptists believe?
1. Jesus died for my sins. My sins are forgiven, that is, I am justified because I believe in Jesus and repented and asked Him to forgive me.
2. God plans for us to be sanctified. I can't accomplish this sanctification on my own. My only hope is to ask God to compete the work of sanctification in me.
3. I believe God will complete the work of sanctification in me because I believe my name is written in the book of life and I am going to be in heaven one day. In other words I believe I will be given the gift of final perseverance. I have faith and hope in this.
4. I was regenerated by the power of the Holy Spirit and I am a child of God.
Any help to understand what I'm missing would be appreciated!
I am a Baptist and you are a Roman Catholic. You are using the same terms we use (Biblical terms) but define them differently.
Your belief in Christ, justification, regeneration, remission of sins are all instrumentally connected and dependent upon sacraments in a cause and effect relationship, whereas Baptists believe their belief in Christ, regeneration, justification and remission of sins are all internal acts effected by the Holy Spirit literally completed preceding any external observations (baptism, Lord's Supper, church membership, etc.).
Those who misrepresent our position attempt to build the straw man that we believe that salvation is merely justification by faith exclusive of any works. However, that is not our position.
The term "salvation" covers a lot more than justification by faith.
It is true that we believe that justification is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without our participation by works, but we do not believe that justification is the totality of our "salvation" nor do we believe that justification "alone" saves us.
We believe that "salvation" is more comprehensive than mere legal acceptance and right to enter heaven (Justification) but includes regeneration of the personal condition of the believer so that he is created in Christ Jesus in true holiness and righteousness in regard to his inward man. Hence, actual righteousness is imparted by new birth which is made progressively manifest in "good works" (Eph. 2:10). However, this imparted righteousness is incomplete and progressive and the regenerated man is never brought to a completed personal condition of righteousness until glorification.
This aspect of salvation begun in regeneration and manifested in progressive sanctification [visible evidence is good works] does not obtain entrance into heaven nor does its rate of progression or level of intensity determine heaven or hell. Entrance into heaven has been determined legally by Christ's merits obtained through justification by faith and by glorification whereby we are made personally fit to enter heaven at the resurrection ALL BEFORE any judgment of works by God.
This aspect of salvation [progressive sanctification] determines temporal growth in experiential salvation, present access to promises and blessings and eternal rewards. Our sins are no longer dealt with as God would deal with enemies but with children and therefore we are no longer under the judgment of God but under the loving chastening hand of God (Jn. 5:24). Our confession or lack of confession of sins does not obtain or lose entrance into heaven but lose or maintain fellowship with God and temporal benefits of salvation. Our sins have already been fully remitted (Rom. 4:4-8) and our temporal ongoing confession only obtains temporal experiential access to the blessings of our salvation but never determines eternal salvation as that has already been accomplished. Hence, we may lose and/or win temporal battles with sin but the war with sin has already been accomplished by the Captain of our salvation for us.
In regard to this aspect of salvation the spectrum of manifest righteousness differs as greatly as between a child of God like Lot and one like Paul and all the variables in between these two. The vast spectrum of practical godliness does not determine heaven or hell nor does it determine glorification as both Lot and Paul will be equally glorified and thus glorification is not dependent upon good works of any extent in number.
Hence, Justification by faith obtains both final fitness and entrance into heaven whereas regeneration obtains a righteous nature here and now, made progressively manifest by good works ultimately determined by God's good pleasure and measure of grace and faith given to every man (Eph. 2:10b; Rom. 12:4,7).
The bottom line is your ultimate JUSTIFICATION is sacramental in nature and dependent upon your own cooperative participation whereas the Baptist view of JUSTIFICATION is totally dependent upon the finished work of Christ without personal cooperative participation. Your REGNERATION is also sacramental in nature and dependent upon your own cooperative participation whereas the Baptist view of REGENERATION is that it is the soverign creative act of God (Jn. 1:13; James 1:18; Eph. 2:10a) inseparable from justification but made manifest in "good works" by the indwelling Holy Spirit enabling us to cooperatively participate according to the measure of grace and faith given every man in order to accomplish God's purpose in our life (Eph. 2:10b; Philip. 2:13; Rom. 12:4,7).
Your "justification" is church/sacrament dependent whereas the Baptist view is epitomized by the theif on the cross without church membership, without baptism and the Supper or any other ordinance. We veiw the theif on the cross not as the exception but as the rule in regard to justification whereas, baptism, church membership and etc. we veiw as the rule for progressive sanctification.
Your gospel is a PARTNERSHIP gospel but ours has no room for man's participation but only room for Christ and His finished works "for our sins."
Your gospel is "another gospel" that was preached among the Galatians (Gal. 1:8-9) that is begun by faith but finished by joint participation or your works (Gal. 3:2-3). Our gospel is characterized by "hearing" (Gal. 3:2) and receiving the finished works of Christ FOR US whereas your gospel is characterized by your "works" for Christ (Gal. 3:2,5).
Your gospel is characterized by doing the works of the Law (God's revealed standard of right versus wrong) and your final standard of condemnation is "cursed is every one that CONTINUETH NOT IN ALL THINGS which are written in the book of the Law to do them."
Our Gospel is characterized by "But no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident the just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith."
Our Gospel is characterized by "the just [justified] shall live by faith" in the finished works of Christ but your gospel is characterized by "the one wishing to be justied shall live by good works in addition to the works of Christ."
The difference between the Baptist and Roman Catholic view of Justification can be summarized in the following verses:
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.