Salvation In the Millennial Kingdom?

[James_Newman]

No, the church is not the bride. The bride is the city. The church is not the city. Romans chapter 7 is a beautiful picture, but the literal bride of Rev 21 is the literal city New Jerusalem, which will be adorned by the righteousness of saints. Those who have overcome sin and made their robes white will inhabit the city, but that is not the entire church.

Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Brother Bob]

Afraid James that you are thinking of a natural city but I am talking of a City not made with hands, but whose builder and maker is God. How do you just dismiss Romans 7 when it says we shall be married to the Lord and don't you believe in the marriage of the Lamb and who will He be married to. Romans 7 tells us.


KJMatt.22
2": The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

"3": And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

"4": Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

"5": But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

"6": And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

"7": But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

"8": Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

"9": Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

He came to his own but they received them not.

KJMatt.21
"43": Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


Amen

[ March 25, 2006, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
So, it was the believers in Christ that was the city. The Church.

A hearty AMEN Brother Bob or as some would say down here Amen and Amen!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
The majority of passages on the kingdom can be easily proven by plain reading to be something that is literal and future and will last “a thousand years” on this earth.

That is totally false. The passages from the Old Testament that speak of a kingdom speak of an everlasting kingdom. The thousand year period appears only one time in the Bible.

 

[James_Newman]

What is 'natural' about a city that comes down from heaven? I don't dismiss Romans 7, but Romans 7 does not say that the church is the bride in Rev 21. The simple fact that neither you nor I have ever descended out of heaven should make it easy to figure that out. You should be part of the bride, but that doesn't mean you will be. The entire 'church' will not be found holy and worthy to adorn the city at His second coming. There will be Christians who do not have their wedding garments on that will be cast out of the kingdom. The marriage supper will not take place until the bridegroom returns, so how can the church be married to Jesus?

 

[Hope of Glory]

The passages from the Old Testament that speak of a kingdom speak of an everlasting kingdom.

The majority refer to an age-lasting Kingdom that is future.

But, either way, it is never referred to as present and spiritual; it's always future and literal.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
The first verse that many use to try to perpetuate the fallacy of a spiritualized Kingdom is Luke 17:20-21. Many people, such as amillennialists, point to the questionable translation of the Greek word “entos” which has been translated by the King James as “within you.” They say that the Kingdom of God is only spiritual or is somehow mystically inside a person. However, in this passage, Jesus is responding to the Pharisees not His disciples! Jesus is answering the Pharisees’ question, “When the Kingdom of God should come?” In the next verse, verse 22, it begins, “And he said unto the disciples”. In the same context, he turns and addresses his own disciples in verse 22. The Pharisees were not his disciples! In verses 20 and 21, he’s talking to the Pharisees, and then he turns to talk to his disciples.

You are wrong again. The Greek word “entos” is translated within in the KJV, American Standard Version, Youngs Literal, NKJV and NIV. It is translated midst in Darby, Green's Literal, NASB, NAS95, and RSV. The word, according to Thayers Lexicon, means

1) within, inside
1a) within you i.e. in the midst of you
1b) within you i.e. your soul

For you to say that Jesus Christ is saying that the Kingdom of God, whether it is spiritual or literal, was within the Pharisees is ridiculous since they were unbelievers. He is simply making a statement on the nature of the kingdom to correct the Pharisees who, like you, erroneously thought that the kingdom was to be a literal Messianic Kingdom.

[ March 25, 2006, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: OldRegular ]

 

[Brother Bob]

James Newman:

He is no respect of persons and in no way will some Christians be cast out.
Sorry, I think you meant that there are people in the Church here on earth that are not saved they just have their names on the book. I agree they will be cast out. Now when I say Church I mean what we call our churches down here but there is only One True Church.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
What is 'natural' about a city that comes down from heaven? I don't dismiss Romans 7, but Romans 7 does not say that the church is the bride in Rev 21. The simple fact that neither you nor I have ever descended out of heaven should make it easy to figure that out. You should be part of the bride, but that doesn't mean you will be. The entire 'church' will not be found holy and worthy to adorn the city at His second coming. There will be Christians who do not have their wedding garments on that will be cast out of the kingdom. The marriage supper will not take place until the bridegroom returns, so how can the church be married to Jesus?

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ephesians 5;24-29
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26. That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27. That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

Paul speaks of the Church as the Bride of Jesus Christ. John speaks of the New Jerusalem as the Bride of Jesus Christ.

Some unamed soul on this Forum has already accused God of bigamy. Are you accusing Jesus Christ of bigamy.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> The passages from the Old Testament that speak of a kingdom speak of an everlasting kingdom.

The majority refer to an age-lasting Kingdom that is future.

But, either way, it is never referred to as present and spiritual; it's always future and literal. </font>[/QUOTE]I believe that the Old Testament predates the New Testament, therefore, reference to the Kingdom is future. Also the Kingdom of God is literally a Spiritual Kingdom. I don't believe that anyone disputes that.

What is not true is a reign of Jesus Christ on the earth, as it presently exists, with mortals running around in the presence of Saints in Glorified bodies for 1000 years.

By the way what does age-lasting mean?

 

[DeafPosttrib]

James,

Revelation chapter 21 of New Jerusalem is not difficult to read, no excuse for you and dispensationalists to read this chapter. Church simple means God's PEOPLE. Anyone(either Jew or Gentile) who believeth in Jesus Christ shall have eternal life, to be WITH THE LORD, where the Lord dwelleth in the city is New Jerusalem. The Bible tells us, God only have ONE FAMILY. You have to accept what God's Word saying.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
James,

Revelation chapter 21 of New Jerusalem is not difficult to read, no excuse for you and dispensationalists to read this chapter. Church simple means God's PEOPLE. Anyone(either Jew or Gentile) who believeth in Jesus Christ shall have eternal life, to be WITH THE LORD, where the Lord dwelleth in the city is New Jerusalem. The Bible tells us, God only have ONE FAMILY. You have to accept what God's Word saying.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

AMEN

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:


Some unamed soul on this Forum has already accused God of bigamy. Are you accusing Jesus Christ of bigamy.

Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I (God) am married unto you: (Israel)

Mt 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, (GOD) which made a marriage for his son, (Jesus/Church)

Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, (Israel) ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

You have to separate the "TRINITY" to understand the scriptures.

 

[Me4Him]

Double post.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Me4Him,

Romans was written not only for Jews or 'Israel'(physical nation), but, also, it was written to the Christians both Jews & Gentiles.

You take verse 4 out of Romans chapter 7 with the context.

The context of Rom. 7:1-6 mentioned about the law. It was written to Jewish believers, that we are not under the laws anymore, but under Jesus Christ through the grace. This context is not discuss about 'Christ's bride'. This conext discusses about the law of the marriage.

The only way you can understand what verse 4 is talking about, first you have to read above verse 3 first. Verse 3 says, "...but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."

So, it is likewise as verse 4 compared with verse 4 says, "Wherefore my brethren, ye also become DEAD TO THE LAW (through what?-) by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, EVEN to him(Christ) who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

To my understanding, at the first, we were bond or slave under the law, when we accept Jesus Christ, then we have to buried our sins or flesh include law, that we are no longer bond or slave(marry) with the law, then now we are married to Jesus Christ, so, we should bring our fruits unto God.

Also, Romans 6:3-5 explaining more clear about dead in Christ uses as the illustration of baptism that we shou,d be buried with Christ, because He was buried for us, then Christ raised from the death, so, we shall be raised with Christ. Notice Romans 6:7-8 explaining more clear about law, it tells us, that a person(follower) which is "dead" is FREED FROM SIN(Law or Slave)." So, next verse says, "Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him"

Romans 7:4 does nothing with the comparing of "Church" & "Israel" of Christ's Bride. The context of Romans 7:1-6 discusses about Christ sets us free FROM THE LAW(Bond or Slave or sins).

Understand?

Of course, the word, 'trinity' is not find in the Bible. We all know that. But we all know the Bible does mentioned about trinity of God by use in Matt. 28:18; and ***1 John 5:7-8**** too.

Your arugment with trinity is absence from the Bible comparing with word, 'church' is absence of Revelation chapter 21 is a weakeness.

Use your common sense.

WHO shall dwelling in God's House???

How about John 14:1-3? Isn't our Father's house- New Jerusalem?

Use your common sense!

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Brother Bob]

Romans, chapter 2

26": Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

"27": And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

"28": For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

"29": But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Romans, chapter 2

26": Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

"27": And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

"28": For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

"29": But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Following up on the above:

Colossians 2:8-12
8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

So it appears from the above Scripture that there is a remarkable similarity between Christians and spiritual Jews. Can we say they are the same?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:


Some unamed soul on this Forum has already accused God of bigamy. Are you accusing Jesus Christ of bigamy.

Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I (God) am married unto you: (Israel)

Mt 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, (GOD) which made a marriage for his son, (Jesus/Church)

Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, (Israel) ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

You have to separate the "TRINITY" to understand the scriptures. </font>[/QUOTE]So you still haven't repented of calling God a bigamist?

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:


Some unamed soul on this Forum has already accused God of bigamy. Are you accusing Jesus Christ of bigamy.

Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I (God) am married unto you: (Israel)

Mt 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, (GOD) which made a marriage for his son, (Jesus/Church)

Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, (Israel) ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

You have to separate the "TRINITY" to understand the scriptures. </font>[/QUOTE]So you still haven't repented of calling God a bigamist? </font>[/QUOTE]God was married to Israel, but only death can annull a marriage, Israel, in being "BORN AGAIN" through Jesus, makes them a "NEW CREATURE", the "OLD MAN" is dead, (Crucified) therefore they are "Permitted" to be married to another.

Your coming up short on your interpretation.

 

[OldRegular]

News Flash from me4Him! Israel is dead!