Salvation Is By The Interposition And Mercy Of God Alone

[KenH]

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life."—John 3:14-15.

It was a serpent, that stung the Israelites. It was the old serpent, the devil, which poisoned our nature at the fall. All his temptations, assaults, and poisons, are fiery. And when the dreadful effects of sin are felt in the awakened conscience, how do they burn with terrors in the soul! What could the dying Israelite do to heal those venomous bites? Nothing. Would medicine cure? No. Was there no remedy within the power of man? No; it baffled all art, it resisted all attempts to heal. Such is sin. No prayers, no tears, no endeavours, no repentance can wash away sin. If the sinner be restored, it must be by the interposition and mercy of God alone.

- excerpt from Robert Hawker's The Poor Man's Morning and Evening Portions, September 12, Morning

 

[Deacon]

Interposition, it's not a common word.

OED definition
INTERPOSITION

• the action of placing something or oneself between; the fact of being placed or situated between: intervention.
• the action of interfering or intervening in a matter; intervention between persons or in a person's behalf; interference, mediation.
• a parenthesis; digression. (obsolete)

Rob

 

[Van]

Interposition, it's not a common word.

OED definition
INTERPOSITION

• the action of placing something or oneself between; the fact of being placed or situated between: intervention.
• the action of interfering or intervening in a matter; intervention between persons or in a person's behalf; interference, mediation.
• a parenthesis; digression. (obsolete)

Rob

I fear that the implication of that obscure word is a reference to "Irresistible Grace" whereby God "enables" the lost person to believe or instills that belief into the person. In other words, more double-speak, to secretly introduce questionable doctrine.

 

[CJP69]

I fear that the implication of that obscure word is a reference to "Irresistible Grace" whereby God "enables" the lost person to believe or instills that belief into the person. In other words, more double-speak, to secretly introduce questionable doctrine.

No doubt! That's all Calvinists know how to do! If not for speaking from both sides of their mouths, they'd never say a word.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No doubt! That's all Calvinists know how to do! If not for speaking from both sides of their mouths, they'd never say a word.

You are a Roman Catholic and you have the gall to criticize Calvinists….really?!?

 

[37818]

You are a Roman Catholic and you have the gall to criticize Calvinists….really?!?

How is a Baptist a Roman Catholic here?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How is a Baptist a Roman Catholic here?

Please clarify your question? How does a Roman Catholic have the nerve to criticize any Calvinist for interposition when it’s the RCC that’s funding & helping illegals getting into the boarders …. In fact it’s criminal on many levels.

 

[37818]

Please clarify your question?

To @CJP69 a Baptist you posted,

You are a Roman Catholic and you have the gall to criticize Calvinists….really?!?

How is a Baptist a Roman Catholic here?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

To @CJP69 a Baptist you posted,

OK… I mistook him for a Catholic…sorry bout that. But there are Calvinist who are also Baptists …so what’s his agenda with criticism Of Calvinists? Trying to start a fight perhaps?

 

[CJP69]

You are a Roman Catholic and you have the gall to criticize Calvinists….really?!?

I am further from being a Catholic (Roman or otherwise) than I am from being a Calvinist!

What in the world made you think I'm a Catholic? I've never even been inside a Catholic church building.

 

[CJP69]

OK… I mistook him for a Catholic…sorry bout that. But there are Calvinist who are also Baptists …so what’s his agenda with criticism Of Calvinists? Trying to start a fight perhaps?

Quite so! In fact, the vast majority of Baptists are very Calvinistic even if they aren't overtly Calvinist, per se.
Fortunately, most Baptist churches typically just sort of don't bother talking about such things. You could go to some Baptist churches for years before discovering that the pastor believes that everything is predestined and that the God who became a man, died and then rose from the dead is somehow totally immutable.

In any case, I'm happy that the confusion about me being Catholic is cleared up!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Quite so! In fact, the vast majority of Baptists are very Calvinistic even if they aren't overtly Calvinist, per se.
Fortunately, most Baptist churches typically just sort of don't bother talking about such things. You could go to some Baptist churches for years before discovering that the pastor believes that everything is predestined and that the God who became a man, died and then rose from the dead is somehow totally immutable.

In any case, I'm happy that the confusion about me being Catholic is cleared up!

As an Origional (Primitive Baptist) we do not believe in the prestination of all things but we believe predestination directed at Gods children to insure that they are on the path to salvation and I could back to scriptures for proof of that. We also stress providence as the connection to God

 

[37818]

Trying to start a fight perhaps?

Being anti-Cal. without dealing with a specific disagreement, is not typically very helpful.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Being anti-Cal. without dealing with a specific disagreement, is not typically very helpful.

Who said anything about being helpful… forget about it. I don’t agree with any works based religion, came from it as an ex- Catholic myself so I have experience with them and their bs belief system but I don’t attack them and ya want to know why, because both my grandmother and mother were very committed to Christ, were honorable people and never threw rocks at anyone over their beliefs. It was my mother that told me that the Roman Catholics church was corrupt and advised me to seek another Christian faith that did not abuse children… all the while stressing the love of Christ as paramount in my life.

Nooo, my biggest gripe with this forum is the constant attacks on peoples faiths in general which leads to contentious fighting with the end result being a mass exiting from the forum. It appears we can no longer chat as brethren. Sad!

 

[CJP69]

As an Origional (Primitive Baptist) we do not believe in the predestination of all things but we believe predestination directed at Gods children to insure that they are on the path to salvation and I could back to scriptures for proof of that. We also stress providence as the connection to God

It's all just watered down Augustinianism, if you ask me.

God does not have a list of specific person's that have been predestined for salvation.

 

[37818]

. . . my biggest gripe with this forum is the constant attacks on peoples faiths in general which leads to contentious fighting with the end result being a mass exiting from the forum. It appears we can no longer chat as brethren. Sad!

It is a debate forum. The best anyone can do is give the truth love regarding a matter.

 

[37818]

God does not have a list of specific person's that have been predestined for salvation.

Romans 8:29, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[37818]

God does not have a list of specific person's that have been predestined for salvation.

Romans 8:29, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[CJP69]

Nooo, my biggest gripe with this forum is the constant attacks on peoples faiths in general which leads to contentious fighting with the end result being a mass exiting from the forum. It appears we can no longer chat as brethren. Sad!

On that point, it is my practice to respond directly to what someone has actually said. In fact, I pay so little attention to who said it that I have a hard time keep track of what I've said to whom. None of this is personal for me. I don't care who any of these people are. I do not know them and have nothing to do with with them except on a web forum where I have quite limited opportunity to interact with them and, in most cases, I'd have to go searching for the answer if you asked me pointed questions about what a particular poster believes.

You mentioned your family and how they reacted toward you and Catholicism. That isn't a correct comparison with what happens on a more or less totally anonymous web forum because the nature of the relationships you have with family and friends and even acquaintances are far and away more impactful than any relationship you might have with anyone on an internet forum. It's just a completely different dynamic and thus the comparison just really isn't valid.

Further, if you think it through, you'll notice that your attitudes in regard to how one poster should respond (or not respond) to another is part and parcel with your doctrine and so is everyone else's attitudes. The vast majority of Christians are far far nicer than God would ever be and many think it a sin to offend anyone about practically anything, or at least that's what you'd think by listening to them carry on about "hating the sin and loving the sinner" and "judge not", etc. One wonders how anyone could ever be convinced to buy into the blatantly self-contradictory notion that it is wrong to judge someone, but many have been. So much so that they react to my pointing out the self-contradictory nature of the idea as me being mean spirited and a jerk. Indeed, around here, almost any amount of straight talk is reacted to as though it's open hostility and so perception, on a web forum, isn't always reality.

The point being that the truth is unavoidably offensive. The more strongly held a particular belief is, the more emotionally someone is going to react to any good argument against that believe. The stronger the argument, and the deeper the belief, the more irrational and emotional the reaction will typically be. And that's just plain old human nature at work. One must guard themselves against thinking that strong arguments against something you believe are thinly veiled personal attacks. They might well be, but aren't by default. As such, I respond to the words on the page and try my best to set aside who said it.

 

[CJP69]

Romans 8:29, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

You are reading your doctrine into the text. It is Jesus (God the Son) who was predestined. That destiny is to our benefit IN HIM.

It is the Body of Christ (the group) that is predestined to be conformed to His image, not the individual members that choose to join it.

If your reading of this text was accurate, it would mean that God is arbitrary. God is not arbitrary, He is righteous and just.

God is just, therefore, Calvinism is false!