Salvation, Of God or of Man

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
For by GRACE are ye SAVED through FAITH and that not of yourselves, IT is the GIFT of God; not of works lest any man should boast. What is the 'it' that verse is talking about? Jesus Christ is not an 'it'. Jesus is never referred to in the Bible as an 'it'. The 'it' is the gift of Salvation; God's gift to you. But you have to receive it, or it is not your's.

God gave His only begotten Son, true. But if man refuses His Son, man will not receive that gift of eternal life; SALVATION.

The "IT" is the faith that God the Holy Spirit gives the newly regenerate od "born again" man.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

If I bought a car, and brought it to your house and said, 'James, this car is yours, I paid for it and all you have to do is take the key' and you refused the key, you would not be able to drive it. The car would not be yours, because you refused the key.

If the car was given to me, then it is my car whether I take the keys or not. I still own the car, I'm just not getting the use out of it.

Salvation is the same way.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

one cannot lay claim to something that one does not accept.

 

[rlvaughn]

I have not read the entire thread, but I must agree with Bro. James. If our analogies are to be meaningful, they must compare to what they intend to illustrate.

If I bought Bro. James a car, I would pay for it, then I would register it in his name. Else I did not really give it to him. If any question ever arose, everything would point to the fact that the car belongs to Bro. James. Otherwise, I am merely saying I bought Bro. James a car, when in effect I am only willing to give him a car IF he meets certain conditions (even if it only be accepting the keys).

 

[LadyEagle]

Maybe it's me, but it seems everyone is talking in circles around each other. Especially since everyone on the poll agreed the last time I looked.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Maybe it's me, but it seems everyone is talking in circles around each other. Especially since everyone on the poll agreed the last time I looked.

We're Baptists, LE. Even when we agree, we disagree.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Maybe it's me, but it seems everyone is talking in circles around each other. Especially since everyone on the poll agreed the last time I looked.

Since you apparently believe in the Sovereignty of God in Salvation should I interpret this to mean that you believe in the Doctrine of Election? I mean, the two are inseparably bound together.

 

[OldRegular]

Let us all engage in prayer for the one person who thinks he can save himself.

 

[LadyEagle]

OR, I'm not familiar with the semantics. I just know God has always known who will accept His Son and who won't. We don't know, which is why we are commanded to preach the Gospel.

 

[Word Walker]

Originally posted by donnA:
I'm never sure what people think the bible means when it says we are dead in our sin before Christ. When's the last time you saw a dead man make a decision to do something.

Hi guys,
Just thought I'd add my two cents.
If God can raise the physical dead (ie. Lazarus), why can't He resurrect the Spiritually dead?

I believe He can, and does, through "drawing" , or compelling those "dead in their sins" through Christ.
Consider:
"No man can come to me, accept the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

Salvation is God's alone. We may accept or reject it. Ephesians 2:8,9.
Grace is from God, therefore salvation is from God.

In Christ,
Word Walker

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Just like Lazarus chose to accept when Christ called him out of the tomb?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

In John 11, Lazarus was physically dead, not spiritually dead.

In answer to the question 'when was the last time you saw a dead man make a decision to do something'.... when was the last time you saw a dead person do anything?

I am pretty sure the answer is never.

But the spiritual realm is not the same as the physical realm. They are apples and oranges. Just because a physically dead person cannot do anything, does not mean the spiritually dead cannot also.

Spiritually dead people must make decisions. Joshua 24:15 plainly shows this. It does not say 'If God allows it, come on over and serve the Lord'. No, it says, 'Choose ye this day...'

 

[Marcia]

I did not even bother with this because obviously there's a hidden agenda behind the question, except it's not that hidden. It's obviously a question from a Calvinist.

What born-again believer is going to say salvation is from man?

If you're a Calvinist, don't say it -- everyone knows what you're thinking.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Marcia:
I did not even bother with this because obviously there's a hidden agenda behind the question, except it's not that hidden. It's obviously a question from a Calvinist.

What born-again believer is going to say salvation is from man?

If you're a Calvinist, don't say it -- everyone knows what you're thinking.

First I am not a Calvinist. Calvin held a number of doctrines with which I disagree, in particular his doctrine of infant Baptism. Believing in the Sovereignty of God in Salvation does not a Calvinist make, it simply means he correctly interprets Scripture on that point. Believing the Scripture in the OP does not a Calvinist make.

From the results of the poll there is apparently one born-again believer on this Forum who states salvation is from man.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
In John 11, Lazarus was physically dead, not spiritually dead.

In answer to the question 'when was the last time you saw a dead man make a decision to do something'.... when was the last time you saw a dead person do anything?

I am pretty sure the answer is never.

But the spiritual realm is not the same as the physical realm. They are apples and oranges. Just because a physically dead person cannot do anything, does not mean the spiritually dead cannot also.

Spiritually dead people must make decisions. Joshua 24:15 plainly shows this. It does not say 'If God allows it, come on over and serve the Lord'. No, it says, 'Choose ye this day...'

If one who is dead can not make decisions, and you believe men can decide to be saved, then it should be more properly stated that man is spiritually sick, not dead, before being born aga...I beg your pardon...before being treated by God.

The bible makes these comparisons for a reason. A dead man can not choose to live. There is a reason that comparison is drawn. A baby can not choose to be born. There is a reason that comparison is drawn.

If I have a choice to make, then that most certainly places salvation, at least partly, in my hands. Then we would have to say that salvation, at least partly, is of man. Salvation by God alone can not be accomplished if we must choose because if we deny it, then the salvation didn't occur. That then makes God a failure.

Praise be to God that such is not and can not be the case.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

double post

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Bro. James Reed:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
In John 11, Lazarus was physically dead, not spiritually dead.

In answer to the question 'when was the last time you saw a dead man make a decision to do something'.... when was the last time you saw a dead person do anything?

I am pretty sure the answer is never.

But the spiritual realm is not the same as the physical realm. They are apples and oranges. Just because a physically dead person cannot do anything, does not mean the spiritually dead cannot also.

Spiritually dead people must make decisions. Joshua 24:15 plainly shows this. It does not say 'If God allows it, come on over and serve the Lord'. No, it says, 'Choose ye this day...'

If one who is dead can not make decisions, and you believe men can decide to be saved, then it should be more properly stated that man is spiritually sick, not dead, before being born aga...I beg your pardon...before being treated by God.

The bible makes these comparisons for a reason. A dead man can not choose to live. There is a reason that comparison is drawn. A baby can not choose to be born. There is a reason that comparison is drawn.

If I have a choice to make, then that most certainly places salvation, at least partly, in my hands. Then we would have to say that salvation, at least partly, is of man. Salvation by God alone can not be accomplished if we must choose because if we deny it, then the salvation didn't occur. That then makes God a failure.

Praise be to God that such is not and can not be the case.

</font>[/QUOTE]

On second thought that is worth a couple more!

 

[OldRegular]

Now we have two who think they have saved themselves!