Salvation!!!

3AM:

Overall..........you lost me somewhere back yonder !

But I quote you in this:
" GOD is the one who gives us Faith. THAT is why
THIS verse is TRUTH:

Ephesians 2: 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and
that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto
good works, which God hath before ordained that we should
walk in them."

I do not take Ephesians to mean that FAITH is the gift. I agree
faith is given by God, that it is up to us to believe in the first
place and that we cannot even say "Jesus is Lord" without
the Holy Spirit, but...................

......to say that this verse means that faith is the gift "not
of yourselves" is a far stretch of the imagination.

It is talking about salvation.
Salvation is the Gift in this verse....Faith is not the gift spoken of.

The "Not of yourselves" phrase is saying that you can do nothing
to deserve, merit , earn etc. that gift of salvation.

Get it, Spitfire ?

Zinger

 

Dictionaries, especially ones such as Greek lexicons are a valuable tool in defining words. Certain people and religions twist meanings, redefine words according to their own presuppositions. The entire neo-orthodox movement is based on taking the fundamental theological words and concepts of the Bible and redefining them, giving them a liberal meaning. Yes, dictionaries are necessary. And the meaning of a word is often defined by the context in which it is used.

Here is where you are wrorng, and take other Scriptures out of context to support a false doctrine. Whereas the Bible clearly says: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved," it evident that it is "belief" that saves. If you do not believe this your argument is with God.

You have a very poor concept of Biblical faith. Faith is not something anyone generates. "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."
Faith is trusting; it is confidence.

1John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
--Faith is the confidence that you are able to put in God that His promises are true. You are only able to do that as you get to know him in a personal relationship with Him. Once saved, the way to get to know him is spending time with him in prayer and through his word. He speaks to us through his word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

Rom.4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
--Abraham provides us a definition of faith. He staggered not at the promise of God. He was strong in faith. And then it says: He was fully persuaded that what God had promised he was able to perform. That is faith--confidence in God.
The more you know God, the more time you spend with him, the more faith you will have.

Faith is not something within you that you generate yourself. That is just nonsense--a totally unbiblical concept.

The verses that you quoted such as Romans 12:1,2 have more to do with obedience than faith.

That comes from obedience to the will of God through the Scriptures. A study of the Scriptures will show you that we no longer live under the law but under grace. You cannot live a life of faith when you place yourself under the law, and bind yourself by its precepts. That is living a life by works.

--The verse teaches that we are saved by faith, and by faith alone. There are no works involved. Verse 10 is a result of the salvation that occurs in a belier's salvation. One who is saved will have good works. Again, that has nothing to do with keeping the law.

Then you just misunderstood the verse you just quoted. Grace is something God does, not man does. It was the grace of God on the cross of calvary that provided us salvation. It is our faith in that salvation that he provided that saves us. And then he plainly says not of works. Do you deny the Bible here?

It is not "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" that is pulled out of contex, for that haromonizes with dozens of other Scripture, and the totality of Scripture. It is the verse in James that is pulled out of context. James is not a book of theology, but a book of practical Christian living. He writes with a different purpose in mind. If you want to discover the real theology behind the realtion of works to justification study Romans 4, where Paul spends the entire chapter discussing the theology of the subject. Don't pull Scripture out of its context.

This is not a Scriptural view of faith. Either you have confidence in the promises of God or you don't. Faith doesn't take over anything. Faith in the sacrifice of Christ is whaat saves you--faith and faith alone. If you believe that works has anything to do with your salvation you are confused about salvation, and deny the teaching given in Eph.2:8,9 where it explicitly says "not of works."

That is an unfounded statement--a lie.

One verse is taken from Eph.2:8,9, and then coupled with a verse taken out of James 2. That is deceitful, and wrong. Faith is what saves, and faith alone. You have no idea what the book of James is teaching.

Why are you trying to confuse the teaching of Paul in Ephesians with the teaching of James? They are teaching different concepts. This is very deceitful on your part. Salvation is not of works. If you believe it is, then you are not saved.
DHK

 

Yes Brian I have pics of myself and my wife. She's the better lookin
of the two. Poor gal is locked into a 16 yr. old body.

(Quote from 3AM)
You say faith is the SAME thing as simply believing, but I have friends who are agnostic,
and they believe that there is SOME kind of 'god'. Are they saved?

(Singer)
Yes, faith and believing are the same thing.
The rest of your sentence is worthy of a long debate if you want.
That'll get into the American Indian and the Eskimo Tribes thingy.
(A topic to create more guesses).

"To have the Son is to have life".....(That's me).
Maybe there's some merit to the Natural Law whereas
their belief in a creator is good enough. After all it's all the
truth the American Indian could have had in l700 AD. Then
the talk about being judged according to the truth they have.

Ho Hum
Zinger

 

DHK,

Thank you so much for your consideration of my post. However, I am not able at this time, to go point by point with you on this. I believed, and God gave me faith. It is ALL Him, and NONE of me. No work, or act can save me. It is ALL HIM. I love Him so much for that, and because I love Him and He gave me faith, I live in obedience to Him. The faith He gave me produces good works, because it is LIVING faith.

James said it best:

You tell me you have faith, and I have works? You just TRY and prove to me that you have faith without doing any good works!!! (impossible) I will SHOW YOU MY FAITH - BY MY WORKS!!!!

God Bless

 

Just to clarify for anyone else who doesn't check the referenced text before calling me a liar:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How is your faith made perfect? By works.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DHK==That is an unfounded statement--a lie.


James 2:22. Do you see how faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

 

WOW...that helped, you guys look great together. A little blue though.

Now where can i find them boss. </font>[/QUOTE]Brian, your and Singer's comments just make my day! You two can be so funny at times!

MEE

 

(Brian)
WOW...that helped, you guys look great together. A little blue though.
Now where can i find them boss.

(Singer)
I sent em to ya Brian. Brace yourself...!!!

(Mee)
Brian, your and Singer's comments just make my day! You two
can be so funny at times!

(Singer)
Well, sometimes this forum does end up being a comedy strip with
all the ideas / translations / appplications of the bible that we come
up with. Course mine are ALWAYS right.....it's just the others
that are twisted

Ok, Brian it's :
1. Believe
2. Repent, be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38)

See that ain't gonna fly with everyone here cuz.......
Some believe the H.S. comes with belief.
Some believe it comes with tongues after the fact.
Some belive baptism is not important.
Some believe baptism is what causes the infilling of the H.S.

Who has the answers?

 

Everyone who is avitar challenged:

Email a LINK to your picture that can be no larger than I think 60X60 pixels, to the webmaster requesting that he put it as your avitar. It takes a few days though so don't get impatient.

If you don't have anywhere to upload your pic you can email it me, I have an account:

kellypooh24@sbcglobal.net

God Bless

 

Hey singer you want me to post that pic in this thread so you don't have to keep emailing it?

 

Thanks Singer! Hey are you related to Kenny Rogers? You need to post that on the board.

BTW, the wife is pretty!

MEE (Carol) Now you know that I have a "real name."

 

Brian:

First let me ask you...Was that your wife in the pic? If so where's the band?

Yes that's my wife....and as far as the band, you didn't ask for
their pic. That's in front of a bar by the way.

forgive my ignorance but what comes with tongues after the fact

Some believe that the Holy Spirit comes with tongues.
That's what the subject line was (The Holy Spirit)

If it were just an "Outward show of Faith that one has received
Christ" than why did John disciples have to be rebaptized (Acts 19)?

Acts 19 is dealing with the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire.
You sure it was another water baptism. ?

Zinger

 

Thanks Carol, yes my wife is pretty and 3AM you better not
post it on here as I'd be bothered with guys calling all the time
then.

Zinger