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Sampling of Churches that Support Transgender Day!
- Thread starter righteousdude2
- Start date
I Understand Better .....
....than you think I do. You and I are mostly defintiely on opposite ends of social challenges facing American churches, and I know where you, pij, and others are coming from.
This is not going to become one of those, "He who shouts the loudest!" wins...
If you have a heart for lawbreakers (illegal aliens of any national origin), that's your choice! If you and pij think these folks are simply the victims of God's imperfections and genetic defects, that is also your choice!!
As far as I'm concerned, God did not make junk when He made us! Our bodies, mental state, and emotional well-being are at times the victims of that which society elects to support and spoon feed people, as well as disease (all the growing result of sin being allowed to come into the world by Adam), but God made us quite well, and if we have demons and other things that challenge us during this walk-through life, He is also able to grant us whatever is needed to wrestle with the imperfections, defects, and most importly, "sin!" and continue to remain on the narrow path!
Maybe I heard Jesus wrong, but the women caught in prostitution was forgiven and told to "go and sin no more!" Those who believe they need to live a life outside of what God created a man and a woman for, are rejecting his perfect plan for a man and woman and purposely sinning!
If you want to paint me as being blind, that is okay. I know what the Word says, and while I may be blind, there are a great number of apostate believers who dwarf my blindness with their being blind, deaf and mute!
I'll gladly be blind if it means being on the right path. :type:
....than you think I do. You and I are mostly defintiely on opposite ends of social challenges facing American churches, and I know where you, pij, and others are coming from.
This is not going to become one of those, "He who shouts the loudest!" wins...
If you have a heart for lawbreakers (illegal aliens of any national origin), that's your choice! If you and pij think these folks are simply the victims of God's imperfections and genetic defects, that is also your choice!!
As far as I'm concerned, God did not make junk when He made us! Our bodies, mental state, and emotional well-being are at times the victims of that which society elects to support and spoon feed people, as well as disease (all the growing result of sin being allowed to come into the world by Adam), but God made us quite well, and if we have demons and other things that challenge us during this walk-through life, He is also able to grant us whatever is needed to wrestle with the imperfections, defects, and most importly, "sin!" and continue to remain on the narrow path!
Maybe I heard Jesus wrong, but the women caught in prostitution was forgiven and told to "go and sin no more!" Those who believe they need to live a life outside of what God created a man and a woman for, are rejecting his perfect plan for a man and woman and purposely sinning!
If you want to paint me as being blind, that is okay. I know what the Word says, and while I may be blind, there are a great number of apostate believers who dwarf my blindness with their being blind, deaf and mute!
I'll gladly be blind if it means being on the right path. :type:
So what do you say to the person who was anatomically born with physical aspects of both male and female reproductive anatomy? What do say when you have been assigned a gender but as they grow older they begin to take a more dominant gender than the one they were told to live in by someone else?
Honestly I'm just curious what you would tell them.
Honestly I'm just curious what you would tell them.
Which is not what we are talking about. How many of the people campaigning for the acceptance of GLTetc are actually born with both reproductive anatomy? However, you brought it up and in that case, we go by the chromosomes - what did God create them as? XX or XY is pretty clear in genetic testing.
freeatlast
New Member
First off you are confusing the OP. This is about transgender not what you are talking about. A transgender is someone clearly born as one or the other gender and who surgically changes themselves to look like the opposite gender after years of practicing homosexuality. They are in fact homosexuals who just carry their sin to extremes.
The people you are talking about are very rare. In fact so rare there is not even any clear information as to how many there are. Some say 1 percent but another might say .1 percent. Also they do not have both organs at least as far a being fully developed. What in fact has happened is that they have a deformity like someone born with three arms. Also there is a condition called Androgen insensitivity syndrome which seems like what you are referring to or have confused as having both genders.
The thing is this. A transgender has to take hormones all their life to maintain the gender look they seek. The person who is born with malformed genitals and needs surgery to make their true gender protonate do not need to take hormones for their whole life.
So like I said you are clouding the OP with a whole different issue. Perhaps you should start a new thread on it as how the church should handle this instead of high jacking this one.
As to the OP these people are homosexuals that have disfigured their bodies and remain in their sin until they repent.
freeatlast
New Member
Ann just so there is no confusion. Some people are born with a condition called Androgen insensitivity syndrome and the chromosomes are not actually as they should be. It is not a xx or xy as there is an xxy. Here is an article, but you are right this is not what this OP is about.
http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome
http://www.aissg.org/21_overview.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odeDW5p4_CY
I will mention there is 7 different levels of this and each one is a little different. There are videos that talk about this so each can research themselves.One more thing. Yes every pastor should be fully aware of this and all the possibilities especially in the world we live in today as well as being ready to deal with all this in a Christ like manner.
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Two very good post Free. BTW pij said to start with he was confused as to what the op was saying.
And how many of the number of gay people who are campaigning for the full acceptance of homosexuality are included in this group? We're talking a birth defect - not a choice in lifestyle.
freeatlast
New Member
First there is no such thing as "gay" people in regards to homosexuals. Second what you said, That is my point.
So every homosexual is genetically altered and thus cannot show if they are man and woman? Interesting - I've never heard of that. Yes, I've heard of the VERY small portion of people who have a genetic abnormality but it's probably not even 1% of homosexuals.
isn't it the truth that ALL of us due to being born with sin natures would be to a degree 'deviate", as NONE would be pure in thoughts and deeds of the Flesh, so in a sense ALL are born 'altered", by what we call the "sin gene!"
regardless, the person actively in homosexual lifestyle can be saved from it, and out of it by the Grace of God!
freeatlast
New Member
Who said they were? Sister you need to say off that wine you say you drink. :laugh:
Actually, genetic testing is often not that clear.
There are also the xxy's and xyy's.
And then to further confuse things, there are the folks who are chimera's.
That is when two separate fertilized eggs conjoin, often or believed to be sometimes as early as the one cell state.
There are documented cases of women who were two separate xx individuals in one appearing normal body. Some parts test dna of one person, some of the other.
And there are documented cases where xx and xy are present in the same person, with some parts testing male and some female. They may have both sets of organs, or only one set.
So there is the possibility of a person with one gender below the waist parts and a different gender brain.
All of which are medical conditions, not sin, should they choose surgery to bring the chaos of the birth defect to an end.
And is very different than those without the birth defect making sinful choices.
But before we get tooooo judgemental we need to face the possibility that the individual we may be judging may have a medical condition.
Humility and caution are always good paths.
There are also the xxy's and xyy's.
And then to further confuse things, there are the folks who are chimera's.
That is when two separate fertilized eggs conjoin, often or believed to be sometimes as early as the one cell state.
There are documented cases of women who were two separate xx individuals in one appearing normal body. Some parts test dna of one person, some of the other.
And there are documented cases where xx and xy are present in the same person, with some parts testing male and some female. They may have both sets of organs, or only one set.
So there is the possibility of a person with one gender below the waist parts and a different gender brain.
All of which are medical conditions, not sin, should they choose surgery to bring the chaos of the birth defect to an end.
And is very different than those without the birth defect making sinful choices.
But before we get tooooo judgemental we need to face the possibility that the individual we may be judging may have a medical condition.
Humility and caution are always good paths.
freeatlast
New Member
No one is arguing a possible medical problem for some, just that they cannot use it as an excuse to play both sides of the coin or change the coin for something it is not. There is no such thing as someone ever being born both male and female at the same time. No one can who has the medical deformities mention can bear children and also father them. That has never happened. They are either male or female with or without the ability to fully preform in a reproductive manner of one gender and that is the gender they need to live with, not jumping back and forth trying to satisfy themselves in both areas.
So what percentage of practicing homosexuals have an actual chromosomal condition?
freeatlast
New Member
I doubt there is any stats on it but it would not matter because it is not justification for their sin.
For the conversations I'm in about these topics there is often an analogy between transg3nder and transv3stite. In the contemporary literature and popular argumentation the two are interchangeable. Perhaps this is why I couldn't understand what the OP was trying to accomplish.
This is a helpful clarification. Thanks :thumbsup:
As I mentioned before only about 2 or 3 percent of the population deal with issues related to anatomy confusion. In the actual conversation among GLBT there is even less involvement from that group.
About your second point, the chromosomal differences aren't a objective as some would like to make them out the be. If anything my involvement in discussions and ministry of reconciliation around these topics has aided me in understanding that there is far more gray than black and white. While we don't excuse sin, there is something to be said about offering grace.
Recently I had a ministry encounter with a couple who had come to our church for assistance. They were struggling with this issue and genetic testing wasn't as forthright as it is suggested by some to be.
Maybe the rhetoric coming out of the OP and resulting replies was what caught me off guard. I make no apologies about confronting sin when it is obvious, but in some of these issues I really believe grace is our first step. When all I get is "sin, sin, sin" from someone it is hard to understand their perspective.