Sanctification.

[Van]

It would seem your argument went past me. In sanctificaton of the Spirit, "and" belief of the truth, for eample. Belief belongs to truth, "belief of the truth." Jesus taught sanctification comes by God's truth, John 17:17. My argument is that sanctification precedes the hearing.
It is God's Holy Spirit who sanctifies (1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13).

How do men come to listen to God's sanctifying truth? The sheep are God's sheep prior to hearing, John 8:47; John 10:26-27; John 18:37.

There is the issue of resisting God's grace, Titus 2:11, Acts of the Apostles 7:51, John 14:17, John 16:7-13.

An avalanche of citations with no support for the assert that we are set apart before God credits our faith as righteousness.

Did I already address John 17:17? Yes, see post #11. Here to repeat, is what I said:
John 17:17 records Christ's prayer shortly before His crucifixion. He is praying specifically here for His disciples. This verse says to sanctify them in truth, which would occur at Pentecost. These disciples already had faith in Christ, thus no support for your sanctification before faith assertion.

We agree with scripture, it is the Spirit that sets us apart spiritually in Christ. The issue is not in dispute.

When people who are open and receptive to God's word ( those "of My sheep) hear with understanding the gospel call, they respond. Some reject the call. Some accept it to a limited degree, like the #2 and 3 soils of Matthew 13, and some go all in for Christ. God knows their hearts, and if He credits their faith as righteousness, He puts them in Christ.

The sheep that hear the call are not His sheep, for they have not yet been chosen through faith in the truth. They are not yet "rich in faith." They are not yet heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God. But if God credits their faith in Christ as righteousness, then God chooses them for salvation through setting them apart in Christ on the basis of their accredited faith in the truth.

 

[37818]

An avalanche of citations with no support for the assert that we are set apart before God credits our faith as righteousness.

Did I already address John 17:17? Yes, see post #11. Here to repeat, is what I said:
John 17:17 records Christ's prayer shortly before His crucifixion. He is praying specifically here for His disciples. This verse says to sanctify them in truth, which would occur at Pentecost. These disciples already had faith in Christ, thus no support for your sanctification before faith assertion.

We agree with scripture, it is the Spirit that sets us apart spiritually in Christ. The issue is not in dispute.

When people who are open and receptive to God's word ( those "of My sheep) hear with understanding the gospel call, they respond. Some reject the call. Some accept it to a limited degree, like the #2 and 3 soils of Matthew 13, and some go all in for Christ. God knows their hearts, and if He credits their faith as righteousness, He puts them in Christ.

The sheep that hear the call are not His sheep, for they have not yet been chosen through faith in the truth. They are not yet "rich in faith." They are not yet heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God. But if God credits their faith in Christ as righteousness, then God chooses them for salvation through setting them apart in Christ on the basis of their accredited faith in the truth.

The disciples the Father had given Jesus prior to them believing in Him. And Jesus Himself called them prior to them believing in Him too. What evidence do we have to the contrary?

 

[Van]

Hi 37818, go back and read where Jesus chose His disciples, they were looking for the Messiah!!!

 

[37818]

Hi 37818, go back and read where Jesus chose His disciples, they were looking for the Messiah!!!

And how would that exclude any of them being given to Jesus by His Father?

 

[Van]

Are you flip flopping? They believed in God and His Word because they were looking for His Messiah, therefore they believed before chosen as disciples, all except the son of perdition.

 

[Yeshua1]

Merely asserting this does not make it so.

We must have the Holy Spirit for that process to begin, and none have Him until we are justified!

 

[Van]

"One MUST be justified before God in order to be also sanctified!" This is a typical assertion, but with no verse citation in support. In fact we must be transferred into Christ (sanctified/set apart in Christ) before we undergo our rebirth (regeneration) and are made holy and blameless (justified).

1Co 6:11
"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

When we are put in Christ, we undergo the washing of regeneration (our rebirth). This makes us holy and blameless, sanctified/made holy. And as such, we are justified, because it is just as if we had never sinned.

 

[HankD]

Although sanctification (but rather glorification) is not mentioned in this passage the "change" is under the control of the Holy Spirit with a word of interesting usage:

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

"changed" - Greek: metamorphoo

 

[Van]

Whether "sanctified" refers to be set apart in Christ (positional sanctification) or being "made holy and blameless, both actions are performed by God alone. We play a part in our progressive sanctification, and that is why we earn rewards or not, but no matter what, we still get to heaven.

 

[Iconoclast]

Also pay no attention to those who pretend to have some knowledge of Greek on one thread, and then try to rubbish those who actually know some Greek on another thread.

Yes...we all remember when Archangel addressed van's attempted greek

 

[Danthemailman]

Believers are sanctified in which we are set apart/made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified (past tense) in Christ Jesus..

Yet I also see progressive or ongoing sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. This is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ the moment we are justified, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness in the process of ongoing sanctification.

 

[HankD]

Although sanctification (but rather glorification) is not mentioned in this passage the "change" is under the control of the Holy Spirit with a word of interesting usage:

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

"changed" - Greek: metamorphoo

So perhaps we spend our earthly days growing into our positional sanctification
A kind of metamorphosis as we contemplate His glory in His word resulting in the fruit of the Spirit.

Or so it seems to me.

 

[Van]

Yes...we all remember when Archangel addressed van's attempted Greek

Ah, the claim of vindication in the unreferenced past, such a ploy, such twaddle. Yes, Archangel has taken me to school at times, but I have also presented the correct view (reflecting Dr. Wallace) on occasion. Your selective memory misrepresents truth.

 

[Van]

Sanctification carries two meanings, (1) to be set apart for a divine purpose, such as being spiritually set apart in Christ, positional sanctification, and (2) to be made holy or more so, purified progressively, as in progressive sanctification. When we are "saved" we are set apart in Christ. And when we are chosen for salvation, we are chosen through (1) the sanctification (being set apart in Christ) by the Spirit, and (2) through faith in the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:13

James 2:5 also teaches we were chosen "rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God." (If your translation has "to be" before "rich in faith" pay no attention, it is not in the text, it was added by translators to alter the meaning of the verse.)

Romans 5:2 indicates our faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. So before we were saved by grace (the grace in which we stand) our faith provided the access to salvation and regeneration.

Romans 4 teaches our faith is credited as righteousness, and so by the numbers, our accredited faith provides the basis of our individual election for salvation during our lifetime, after we have lived not as a chosen people, 1 Peter 2:9-10.

 

[Van]

Believers are sanctified in which we are set apart/made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified (past tense) in Christ Jesus..

Yet I also see progressive or ongoing sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. This is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ the moment we are justified, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness in the process of ongoing sanctification.

I think part of the puzzle can be explained by looking at our purity from two different perspectives. Once God puts us in Christ where we undergo the washing of regeneration and the circumcision of Christ, our sin burden (what God holds against us) is removed, and therefore from God's perspective we remain holy and blameless even as we continue to sin from our perspective. We are supposed to earn rewards by engaging in progressive sanctification, as you explained, which will make us more effective witnesses for Christ, and help earn eternal rewards.

Being made holy and blameless is to be justified, because what God held against us has been forever removed. In Christ = made righteous, blameless, holy, forgiven, justified, and perfect, But we are not to sin so grace may abound. We are to pick up our cross and follow Jesus, striving to become more Christ-like and to serve Him as ambassadors of Christ.

 

[Iconoclast]

="Van,

(The sheep that hear the call are not His sheep, for they have not yet been chosen through faith in the truth. They are not yet "rich in faith." )

Does anyone on the www. Think this makes any sense?

 

[Van]

="Van,

(The sheep that hear the call are not His sheep, for they have not yet been chosen through faith in the truth. They are not yet "rich in faith." )

Does anyone on the www. Think this makes any sense?

Why did Icon not provide a link to his edited except? We are not saved before we are saved. Saved people belong to Christ, thus are referred to as "His sheep, and My sheep. "The sheep" usually refers to lost mankind. Those that hear and respond are "of My sheep" meaning they are open the receptive to God's word.

The sheep that hear and understand the call (invitation) of the gospel are "of My sheep" not "My sheep or His sheep yet.

 

[Yeshua1]

Merely asserting this does not make it so.

God does not view as sanctified until in Christ, and that would be once Justified!

 

[37818]

God does not view as sanctified until in Christ, and that would be once Justified!

Again, saying this does not make it so. Give the reference for this view. Thank you.

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, saying this does not make it so. Give the reference for this view. Thank you.

I can prove that we must be born again in order to be in the process of sauctification, as how can lost sinners be sauctified if God does not view them as His own yet?