Correct...sounds as if she says the scripture is special, but her 'dialogue is also special in a different way.The danger is she encourages a person to look outside of scripture to seek dialogue with the "spirit"....apart from the word as if a person will just know it is not a deception? No thanks:wavey:
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Sarah Young's Jesus Calling
- Thread starter webdog
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Correct...sounds as if she says the scripture is special, but her 'dialogue is also special in a different way.The danger is she encourages a person to look outside of scripture to seek dialogue with the "spirit"....apart from the word as if a person will just know it is not a deception? No thanks:wavey:
:thumbs::thumbs::applause::thumbs:sadly very correct, very dangerous,
Piper got ripped for several loose comments on this..this is dangerous to say the least.
The sentence I made was in two parts.
1st part - the items I listed (meditation, "emptying the mind," seeing "special revelation") are not all bad
2nd part - they were not peculiar to only to "new age."
Believers are to meditate upon the word of God, and make practical and personal application as the Holy Spirit would indicate or impress.
Believers are to "empty the mind" that it may be filled with Christ's mind. 1 Corinthians 2:15-16, Philippians 2:5, Romans 12:2 ...
"Special revelation" is referred to by Paul and although I personally do not think it evidenced in the assembly as the Scriptures are to be the final authority in all faith and practice, I do also not detract from God giving a special insight (revelation) and leading to those whom He has called - be it missionary, pastor, or any other believer who is "called according to His purpose."
You will note, I did NOT include "being one with nature" and some "God presence."
But these itmes have been around for all ages (example: Greeks worshiped nature and gods of nature") which goes to the second part of the sentence I wrote.
Putting a label of "new age" is (in my opinion) just a distraction, when a form of "being one with nature" and "God presence" is actually part of the thinking of some Christian focus and camp gatherings.
"Getting away from it all" and being in the natural environment - be it the woods, the sea, the wilderness... - can be a time of personal communication with God and His presence may certainly be a factor. Did not Christ spend some time(s) away from everyone - often in personal communication with the father? There is good in this time of introspection and reflection, in prayer and true filling of the Holy Spirit.
The danger is when the nature becomes the "god" and not the Creator. When the creation becomes more worshiped, and the beauty more important.
But again, these are not just "new age" - but also seen in the rituals of many pagan rites.
I was criticized in a Baptist church by the leadership because they considered my prayers too personal as if talking to a friend, sharing ideas and contemplating alternatives.
If this kind of prayer is wrong by some on the BB, then God give more to the church and the members that they have true fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
I recall hearing how some held in isolation in the Russian camps for being Christians would find in contemplation of the Scriptures sensed in reality the very comfort and presence of Christ illuminating their cell.
Folks, there is a chasm difference between true "contemplative prayer" and some "repeated mantra" that some engage.
A repeating mantra - be it in prayer or music has the same effect - and it is evil. It has no place in the life of the believer.
I dare say that when the assembly engages in mass mantra it is just as evil and not God glorifying.
Piper statement (taken from: John Piper's contradictory position): "a video online showing where popular Calvinist teacher John Piper is asked the question: “Is there such a thing as contemplative prayer or Christian meditation in the Reformed and Puritan tradition?” Piper answers by first attempting to define contemplative prayer:
This statement by Piper would be good if it was as far as Piper went.[T]here is a spiritual seeing, or what we would call contemplation. This is where, when you read your Bible, you pause and you see in and through the words to the reality with your heart, and you apprehend spiritual reality. And this gives rise to a kind of praying that is spiritual and authentic and personal and warm and strong."
But according to the article, and other reading I have done, Piper has flopped about like a fat man stuck in bed with the RCC.
As a result, (from what I have read) the "ripping" was well deserved.
Folks, don't throw out true contemplative prayer (as Piper described above) and is complementary in meditating upon Scriptures.
Just beware of mixing truth with evil deceit. The typical "mantra" setting is not just in prayer, but can occur even in the self talk a person may have.
Good post Rob....Web, stick to the gospel's. Bless you in your ministry.
Again, the Holy spirit can "speak" to us thru the word of God, and will enable us to "hera from the Lord. but He will NOT have us publish those as being some type of communication for all others, nor is there ANY NT mandate to seek the risen Christ, to have Him talk person to person just like he did while on earth, nor to visualize Him etc...
We have the Bible, that is ALL the conversation that we need to have with Him, as the Holy spirit will give us our "daily word!"
God speaks to us PRIMARY FASHION in the Bible, as the Spirit reveals the mind and will of God fior us thru it, also speaks thru fellow christians with godly widon/insihts/circumstances etc
BIG danger in this though is that we are NOT to seek the risen Jesus and talk to Him and expect Him to answer just as IF he is physically here like when n earth, nor to visulaize Him talking to us in exact spoken words!
you heard His small still voice, in a direct answer, but that is NOT His norm, as we have the bible for His primary communication tool to us, and He does NOT speak in that voice all the time to us, would say rare examples to us!
This is just 'spiritual journaling" from pentacostal circles, repackages, and big problem is that how does one know if its the real Jesu, a demonic/fake one, or auto writing, like Edgar cayce claimed to receive communication from "God' with?
Yeshua,
You are inconsistent with your statements as given to the replies.
You said:
If it is "ALL the conversation that we need to have with him," then why do you state, that He "speaks thru fellow christians with godly widon/insihts/circumstances etc"
Which is it?
Or were you more reacting to my post, rather than clearly stating your actual view which is not in disagreement with my post at all?
Perhaps we disagree on the "publishing" part.
I don't see a problem with publishing a first person conversation between Christ and myself. I have often heard preachers make such statements, too.
What IS a problem is when such a published or spoken conversation strays into doctrinal error.
That is why we as believer's are to sift EVERYTHING through the Scriptures and hold to that which is aligned as gold - trashing the rest.
Again, you seem a bit inconsistent with your statements.
As you indicated, you heard His "small still voice, in a direct answer, but that is NOT His norm."
My question is, why not?
Why is it that believers conduct business without the attention to the voice of God given to them through the Holy Spirit?
CERTAINLY, He uses the Word!
CERTAINLY, He will cause the Word to be brought into the mind and present wisdom in everyday moment by moment walk.
But, that IS the norm.
It is also the norm that God wants to visit with the believer - that is what prayer is all about - a communication not just between man to God, but God to man.
Are believers not to pray without ceasing? Why?
So that they may dwell in the "fullness" of Christ, knowing that at each moment they are not only complete in Him, but in complete communication with Him.
The believer is to be like the little child crossing the street, holding tightly to the father's hand, while the two jabber away with all that comes to the little child's heart and mind, confident that the father's guidance is all that is necessary for complete safety in the trek of life.
You are inconsistent with your statements as given to the replies.
You said:
If it is "ALL the conversation that we need to have with him," then why do you state, that He "speaks thru fellow christians with godly widon/insihts/circumstances etc"
Which is it?
Or were you more reacting to my post, rather than clearly stating your actual view which is not in disagreement with my post at all?
Perhaps we disagree on the "publishing" part.
I don't see a problem with publishing a first person conversation between Christ and myself. I have often heard preachers make such statements, too.
What IS a problem is when such a published or spoken conversation strays into doctrinal error.
That is why we as believer's are to sift EVERYTHING through the Scriptures and hold to that which is aligned as gold - trashing the rest.
Again, you seem a bit inconsistent with your statements.
As you indicated, you heard His "small still voice, in a direct answer, but that is NOT His norm."
My question is, why not?
Why is it that believers conduct business without the attention to the voice of God given to them through the Holy Spirit?
CERTAINLY, He uses the Word!
CERTAINLY, He will cause the Word to be brought into the mind and present wisdom in everyday moment by moment walk.
But, that IS the norm.
It is also the norm that God wants to visit with the believer - that is what prayer is all about - a communication not just between man to God, but God to man.
Are believers not to pray without ceasing? Why?
So that they may dwell in the "fullness" of Christ, knowing that at each moment they are not only complete in Him, but in complete communication with Him.
The believer is to be like the little child crossing the street, holding tightly to the father's hand, while the two jabber away with all that comes to the little child's heart and mind, confident that the father's guidance is all that is necessary for complete safety in the trek of life.
Folks,
Too often the average believer has no true communication relationship with the Holy Spirit and travels without guidance in the ways of living. Often they rely upon circumstances, "chance occurrences," some supposed wet fleece sign, or some other indicator.
When a moment by moment direct communication is offered by the Holy Spirit to those who have ears to hear. Do not quench that peace filled small whisper, that impulse of love, that directs practical Scriptural principles and Scriptural wisdom to every aspect of living.
Do not neglect the Word of God. Look for the theology behind everything, in every matter, in every moment.
Published work by others, no matter the genre, no matter the hype, no matter the popular cultural view, and no matter the delivery - they all need to be examined for consistency with Scripture principles and doctrine.
That applies from the simplest prayer to the most awesome media one might encounter, from the elementary writing of a beginning believer to the grand statements of the most highly educated, and no less from the most humble tune to the loftiest cacophony of sounds.
Look at just these few verses to see what the Scriptures state about the matter.
Paul's letter speaks similarly in Colossians 3:
If one hears the voice calling to salvation, why is so ignored in daily walk?
Too often the average believer has no true communication relationship with the Holy Spirit and travels without guidance in the ways of living. Often they rely upon circumstances, "chance occurrences," some supposed wet fleece sign, or some other indicator.
When a moment by moment direct communication is offered by the Holy Spirit to those who have ears to hear. Do not quench that peace filled small whisper, that impulse of love, that directs practical Scriptural principles and Scriptural wisdom to every aspect of living.
Do not neglect the Word of God. Look for the theology behind everything, in every matter, in every moment.
Published work by others, no matter the genre, no matter the hype, no matter the popular cultural view, and no matter the delivery - they all need to be examined for consistency with Scripture principles and doctrine.
That applies from the simplest prayer to the most awesome media one might encounter, from the elementary writing of a beginning believer to the grand statements of the most highly educated, and no less from the most humble tune to the loftiest cacophony of sounds.
Look at just these few verses to see what the Scriptures state about the matter.
Paul's letter speaks similarly in Colossians 3:
15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. 17Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.
Another principle is referring to 1 Thessalonians 5:
16Rejoice always; 17pray without ceasing; 18in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. 19Do not quench the Spirit; 20do not despise prophetic utterances. 21But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; 22abstain from every form of evil.
Proverbs 14:
15The naive believes everything,
But the sensible man considers his steps.
Paul says in 2 Corinthians 10:Proverbs 14:
15The naive believes everything,
But the sensible man considers his steps.
"5 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,"
The Lord Jesus Christ said (John 10):
4 When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice."
Speaking upon the work of the Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus Christ said (John 16):
"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come."
(I realize that some consider this verse ONLY to the apostles, but John included the narrative, and John's work was to everyone.)
If one hears the voice calling to salvation, why is so ignored in daily walk?
Believe that all posting here would agree that the Lord has guided/"spoken" to them thru situiations/circumstances.godly wisdom/advice from others, but still his PRIAMRY means is via the Bible!
And she seems to be taking the position that her "vioce" is of Jesus Himself, and is speaking inerrantly unto her, in order to get it published for rest of us!
This smacks of auto journaling/occultic practices...
the promise from Jesus was JUST to the Apsotles, as they would hve inspiration from Spirit to record the text for us, while we have he Illumination of the Spirit to help us understand what he inspired them to write!
Have to rrealise that the ONLY for sure word of/from the lord to any of us is in the Bible, for it IS the very mind of God to us!