Satan Crushed Shortly

[Zog Has-fallen]

The Baptist Debate Forums (Baptist Only) is discussing an important question: Satan Crushed Shortly.

For curious, Biblically literate, non-Baptists that welcome a serious intellectual challenge, the only indisputably Biblical answer to this riddle is hinted at in this locked thread: Did William Miller Ever Stop Being A Baptist?

 

[loDebar]

Rev 22:7

Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

no difference

 

[rsr]

This is not an intellectual challenge. Christ will return at the time of his choosing and all attempts to set a date, or an era, are futile and contrary to the revelation of Scripture.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

Rev 22:7

Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

no difference

All Adventists agree (Ellenite and Millerite) that this is just as much of a test as was God’s command to Abraham to sacrifice his one and only son (Genesis 22).

Jeremiah 17:10
“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Psalms 7:9
Oh, let the evil of the wicked come to an end,
and may you establish the righteous—
you who test the minds and hearts,
O righteous God!

Proverbs 17:3
The crucible is for silver, and the furnace is for gold, and the Lord tests hearts.

Job 7:17-18
What is man, that you make so much of him,
and that you set your heart on him,
visit him every morning
and test him every moment?

James 1:3
for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

This is not an intellectual challenge. Christ will return at the time of his choosing and all attempts to set a date, or an era, are futile and contrary to the revelation of Scripture.

Matthew 24:36
But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

But Christ did specify the generation:

When Jesus used the expression, “this generation” He always meant the generation of His contemporaries.

“To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like?” (Luke 7:31).

“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children” (Matthew 11:16).

“The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here” (Matthew 12:41).

“The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here” (Matthew 12:42).

Sighing deeply in His spirit, He said, “Why does this generation seek for a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation” (Mark 8:12).

As the crowds were increasing, He began to say, “This generation is a wicked generation; it seeks for a sign, and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah” (Luke 11:29).

“For just as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so will the Son of Man be to this generation” (Luke 11:30).

“The Queen of the South will rise up with the men of this generation at the judgment and condemn them, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here” (Luke 11:31).

“The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here” (Luke 11:32).

“so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation” (Luke 11:50).

“from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation” (Luke 11:51).

“Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation” (Matthew 23:36).

“But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation” (Luke 17:25).

“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place” (Luke 21:32).

“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Matthew 24:34).

 

[loDebar]

This is not an intellectual challenge. Christ will return at the time of his choosing and all attempts to set a date, or an era, are futile and contrary to the revelation of Scripture.

Satan will be destroyed at the time of God's choosing as well

 

[loDebar]

Matthew 24:36
But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

But Christ did specify the generation:

When Jesus used the expression, “this generation” He always meant the generation of His contemporaries.

“To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like?” (Luke 7:31).

“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children” (Matthew 11:16).

“The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here” (Matthew 12:41).

“The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here” (Matthew 12:42).

Sighing deeply in His spirit, He said, “Why does this generation seek for a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation” (Mark 8:12).

As the crowds were increasing, He began to say, “This generation is a wicked generation; it seeks for a sign, and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah” (Luke 11:29).

“For just as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so will the Son of Man be to this generation” (Luke 11:30).

“The Queen of the South will rise up with the men of this generation at the judgment and condemn them, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here” (Luke 11:31).

“The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here” (Luke 11:32).

“so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation” (Luke 11:50).

“from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation” (Luke 11:51).

“Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation” (Matthew 23:36).

“But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation” (Luke 17:25).

“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place” (Luke 21:32).

“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Matthew 24:34).

genea

1. fathered, birth, nativity
   
   
2. that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
   
   1. the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
      
      
   2. metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
      
      1. esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
         
3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time
   
   
4. an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years
   

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

Satan will be destroyed at the time of God's choosing as well

Romans 16:20
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

 

[loDebar]

Romans 16:20
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

tachos
quickness, speed
τάχος táchos, takh'-os; from the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), i.e. (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:—+ quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

it means Satan will be quickly destroyed, instead of the time to start destruction

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

tachos
quickness, speed
τάχος táchos, takh'-os; from the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), i.e. (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:—+ quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

it means Satan will be quickly destroyed, instead of the time to start destruction

Surely you recognize the New Testament expectation that the end of the world was to be in the lifetime of the Apostles?

Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew 3:2; 4:17 cf. Mark 1:15.

And Jesus was going about in all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and proclaiming the good news of the kingdom. Matthew 4:23.

And as you go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew 10:7.

And this do, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand... And the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. Romans 13:11-12; 16:20.

Even so you too, when you [the disciples] see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:33-34 cf. Mark 13:29-30; Luke 21:31-32.

You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. ... behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. James 5:8-9.

The end of all things is at hand. 1 Peter 4:7.

But whenever they persecute you in this city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23.

For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. Matthew 16:27-28 cf. Mark 8:38, 9:1; Luke 9:26-27.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18.

But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. ...keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place and to stand before the Son of Man. Luke 21:28,36.

... The appointed time has grown very short. 1 Corinthians 7:29.

... The ends of the ages have come. 1 Corinthians 10:11.

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son. Hebrews 1:1-2.

Now ... at the consummation of the ages. Hebrews 9:26.

... a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:5.

For He ... appeared in these last times for the sake of you. 1 Peter 1:20.

For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. Hebrews 10:37.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall... 1 Thessalonians 4:15.

... which must shortly take place... for the time is near. Revelation 1:1,3.

Hold fast until I come. Revelation 2:25.

Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world. Revelation 3:10.

I am coming soon. Revelation 3:11.

... what must soon take place... I am coming soon... Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. ... Behold, I am coming soon ... Surely I am coming soon. Revelation 22:6-7,10,12,20.

But they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 1 Peter 4:5.

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God,... Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless. 2 Peter 3:11-14.

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Philippians 3:20.

And now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 1 John 2:28.

... so that He may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 3:13.

... awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.

... as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ; who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:7-8.

You turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10.

Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and ... keep the commandment without stain or reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time. 1 Timothy 6:12-15.

 

[percho]

Surely you recognize the New Testament expectation that the end of the world was to be in the lifetime of the Apostles?

Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew 3:2; 4:17 cf. Mark 1:15.

And Jesus was going about in all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and proclaiming the good news of the kingdom. Matthew 4:23.

And as you go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew 10:7.

And this do, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand... And the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. Romans 13:11-12; 16:20.

Even so you too, when you [the disciples] see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:33-34 cf. Mark 13:29-30; Luke 21:31-32.

You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. ... behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. James 5:8-9.

The end of all things is at hand. 1 Peter 4:7.

But whenever they persecute you in this city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23.

For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. Matthew 16:27-28 cf. Mark 8:38, 9:1; Luke 9:26-27.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18.

But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. ...keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place and to stand before the Son of Man. Luke 21:28,36.

... The appointed time has grown very short. 1 Corinthians 7:29.

... The ends of the ages have come. 1 Corinthians 10:11.

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son. Hebrews 1:1-2.

Now ... at the consummation of the ages. Hebrews 9:26.

... a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:5.

For He ... appeared in these last times for the sake of you. 1 Peter 1:20.

For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. Hebrews 10:37.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall... 1 Thessalonians 4:15.

... which must shortly take place... for the time is near. Revelation 1:1,3.

Hold fast until I come. Revelation 2:25.

Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world. Revelation 3:10.

I am coming soon. Revelation 3:11.

... what must soon take place... I am coming soon... Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. ... Behold, I am coming soon ... Surely I am coming soon. Revelation 22:6-7,10,12,20.

But they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 1 Peter 4:5.

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God,... Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless. 2 Peter 3:11-14.

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Philippians 3:20.

And now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 1 John 2:28.

... so that He may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 3:13.

... awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.

... as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ; who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:7-8.

You turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10.

Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and ... keep the commandment without stain or reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time. 1 Timothy 6:12-15.

The end of the world or the end of the ages, plural?

Of course you had the Age singular Matt 24:3 that generation was living in. What other ages were there?

BTW I'm just wondering, I do not know.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

The end of the world or the end of the ages, plural?

Of course you had the Age singular Matt 24:3 that generation was living in. What other ages were there?

You're asking an important question. When I read all the instances where the word ages is used in the NKJV, I get the sense that the word is referring to either epochs or eons, depending on the context. Unquestionably, in Scripture, the time before the flood was a very special epoch.

As for there being different eras in sacred history, it's both essential and easy to see that Scripture abounds in the descriptions of multiple endtime scenarios. The clearest example is the book of Daniel, which begins with the longest scenario, spanning four kingdoms, which is later followed by a shortened and less definite two kingdom version, where the world ends during Messiah's first advent.

 

[loDebar]

Surely you recognize the New Testament expectation that the end of the world was to be in the lifetime of the Apostles?

Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew 3:2; 4:17 cf. Mark 1:15.

And Jesus was going about in all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and proclaiming the good news of the kingdom. Matthew 4:23.

And as you go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew 10:7.

And this do, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand... And the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. Romans 13:11-12; 16:20.

Even so you too, when you [the disciples] see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:33-34 cf. Mark 13:29-30; Luke 21:31-32.

You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. ... behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. James 5:8-9.

The end of all things is at hand. 1 Peter 4:7.

But whenever they persecute you in this city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23.

For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. Matthew 16:27-28 cf. Mark 8:38, 9:1; Luke 9:26-27.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18.

But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. ...keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place and to stand before the Son of Man. Luke 21:28,36.

... The appointed time has grown very short. 1 Corinthians 7:29.

... The ends of the ages have come. 1 Corinthians 10:11.

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son. Hebrews 1:1-2.

Now ... at the consummation of the ages. Hebrews 9:26.

... a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:5.

For He ... appeared in these last times for the sake of you. 1 Peter 1:20.

For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. Hebrews 10:37.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall... 1 Thessalonians 4:15.

... which must shortly take place... for the time is near. Revelation 1:1,3.

Hold fast until I come. Revelation 2:25.

Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world. Revelation 3:10.

I am coming soon. Revelation 3:11.

... what must soon take place... I am coming soon... Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. ... Behold, I am coming soon ... Surely I am coming soon. Revelation 22:6-7,10,12,20.

But they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 1 Peter 4:5.

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God,... Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless. 2 Peter 3:11-14.

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Philippians 3:20.

And now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 1 John 2:28.

... so that He may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 3:13.

... awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.

... as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ; who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:7-8.

You turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10.

Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and ... keep the commandment without stain or reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time. 1 Timothy 6:12-15.

Why do you post unrelated verses?

We are taught to be continually expecting His return.

SDA is just Humanism

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

Why do you post unrelated verses?

If you would google the New Testament expectation that the end of the world was to be in the lifetime of the Apostles, and just take the time to read a little, starting with the Baptist only version of Satan Crushed Shortly, you would discover many credible acknowledgements.

SDA is just Humanism

Those sanctimonious enablers of genocide are far worse than humanists.

 

[loDebar]

it is

If you would google the New Testament expectation that the end of the world was to be in the lifetime of the Apostles, and just take the time to read a little, starting with the Baptist only version of Satan Crushed Shortly, you would discover many credible acknowledgements.



Those sanctimonious enablers of genocide are far worse than humanists.

no really , It places undue importance on the Human condition over the spiritual.
It is also slanderous to form doctrine from English translations. English is not a precise language

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

It is also slanderous to form doctrine from English translations. English is not a precise language

Where have you studied Hebrew and Greek?

 

[loDebar]

Where have you studied Hebrew and Greek?

Random places, no formal training

but it is not about Hebrew and Greek but English as a language and how many ways we can say one thing but mean another, Some languages are more precise than others, French is more precise than English

 

[HankD]

Random places, no formal training

but it is not about Hebrew and Greek but English as a language and how many ways we can say one thing but mean another, Some languages are more precise than others, French is more precise than English

One of my sons worked in the Scandinavian world for several years and he thinks the Norwegian language is also very precise. i.e. If you are visiting someone and decide ts time to go home you can tell your host with two words.

However there are at least a dozen ways with those two words (with inflection) to send the complete message. Going home to sleep, work, eat, etc...

Any Norwegian brethren to verify?

IMO Even self study of Greek and Hebrew is very valuable.

Advice: Don't just learn the alphabet and to be able to read and pronounce the words, but learn the rules of grammar and syntax as well - along with the culture behind the language..

 

[loDebar]

Where have you studied Hebrew and Greek?

I did not intend "slanderous" I wrote and meant "dangerous"

I did not notice this spell check, apologies

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

It is also dangerous to form doctrine from English translations. English is not a precise language

Are there any Baptist pastors that agree with you (that the Bible can't be honestly translated into English) or is this just your idea?