Saved Catholics?

RE: Saved Catholics

This forum conversation has been toally uncalled for. If the people that just spent all this time on this forum trying to show how much they new about the Bible and Christanity, would have spent that time in prayer or trying to talk to a lost soul, then that would have been something God could look down on and smile about, not this stuff you people have been spouting off about. Shame on all these so called bibical trained people.

The longer that I stay on this forum, the more that it hurts me to see so-called Soutern Baptist say the many things that are completely hurtful to God and His many true followers.

I will be checking in from time to time to see what kind of talking is going on, but please, try and do the great cimmission instead of this stuff that you are doing here. This is not enlightening.

 

Yes, it does. Are you claiming that you can cut out of the Bible those verses you don't like?

 

No I believe the "great commission" is in His Word, and I believe the "great commission" for it was given to the nation of Israel for that is the gospel they were to believe and do.

Please look again at the "great commission" in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Mark is in my Bible and it was placed there by the work of the Holy Spirit. Is it not you that wishes to "cut out" or discard Mark 16:14-20. If you do in order to fit your belief, then you must also "cut out" Acts 2:37-39, " Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

Is this not the "great commission"? This is what the Catholic's and some others believe. The Baptist church I was brought up in said they believed Acts 16:28:31, "But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30. And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

Today we can't be justified under that Jewish Apostolic gospel, for that "remission of sins" work is under the "law of ordinances" that was nailed to the Cross for we Gentiles, and also the Jew that only became effective after Damascus Road.

I believe all scripture, but I know what is written for my benefit, and understand what is written to those justified differently than me.

 

Then you are saying there are two gospels of "justification". If so then you agree with me, which there are not many of us.

It looks to be as you say, but I know some Catholic's that say they believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to save them. I can condemn the system, but not an individual member that may be in the Body of Christ. Just so in the Baptist denomination, it is difficult to tell who is in the Body of Christ, and who is not. So many Baptist say they believe in the "great commission" and want that preached, but every one of them will also say they "believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to save them". Which is it?

I am seeing more Baptist's talking about their "king", and the coming "kingdom" than in times past. This fits into the "great commission" gospel of "justification", than our looking to be "caught up to our Lord Jesus Christ in the air" through whom we are "justified". We don't look to go through the tribulation to get to the "kingdom"; we get there by going through Christ Jesus.

So I can't condemn all Catholic's to be outside the Body of Christ Church, for then to be consistent I would need to condemn the Baptist churches that adhere to the joint "justification", as well as Methodist, Christian, Church of Christ, etc.

 

Thanks Soulman. I believe you will find I addressed "their" system. But I am unable to condemn any that say they believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation, regardless of what denomination one may belong to, if any. The Body of Christ Church is the only one that counts.

 

Re: Catholics

"There are many Christs." Soulman quote



HUH!!!

 

Agree Soulman. I'm going to let scripture do the talking, with the understanding thereof. If a Catholic tells you they are in the Body of Christ, justified as you and I, you would still condemn them? We need to be careful of condemning the individual that say they are in the Body of Christ.

God will judge us in our judgment, but it is only He that will judge those outside of Him, and you evidently feel "all Catholics fall into this category. You need to leave that judgment to God, for you will be judged for placing yourself beside Him to make judgment He holds only for Himself.

As to your judging individuals however in a system, we are sure to heap "coals" on our head for condemning any that are in Christ unfairly. "And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."

From this we know all today are justified through faith. The Catholic system may preach and believe the messages of the "great commission" as did Peter for that was how he was justified, and that was by faith, but do not many Baptist churches teach and preach the same thing? We see the Gentile Cornelius and his household are justified differently, and that being through faith (the faith of Jesus Christ). If an individual in a Catholic church, Baptist church, even one that does not have an earthly church affiliation, understands how they are justified it doesn't make any difference as to what "system" they are in. Today they are in the Body of Christ.

The false Christ one believes in cannot be in the spiritual Body of Christ Church, which is in heaven, and that is where we in the Body of Christ are today. The Father sees us already in His Only Begotten Son. God doesn't see a "system" or church, but only Christ Jesus. If we are in Christ, we are known to God the Father.

I see what you see, but you do not see what I see. We must be careful while condemning others, for some of the light we see could be that flickering light of the "angel of light". It beckons to us to aspire to great things. It tells us we can aspire to be not only "like God", but that we can "be God". It says "you are now the judge", "you can be as god" (Genesis 3:5). We can be deceived into thinking we can judge the world. We can judge worldly things, but not things (people).

"In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel", Romans 2:16. God will Judge the secrets of men, and it will be by Jesus Christ, and it will be according to Paul's gospel. No secret in man can be hidden from God, whether Catholic, Baptist, etc. It is the "individual" in a System that you are condemning, and one who judges in this manner without knowing the individual will be judged - Matthew 7:1.

 

Originally Posted by ituttut
I was wondering if your "denominational" Baptist church preaches the message of the "great commission". I have never been able to understand why they continually reference the "great commission" for in it is what the Catholic church and the Jehovah' Witnesses claim they must believe and do to be saved.

I was wondering if your Baptist church believe we are to believe the "great commission"?


I don't get why you say "the message of the great commission" and why we must believe the great commission to be saved.
The great commission is not a message, it is the task which Jesus gave His church.
His church is made up of true New Testament churches that follow the teachings of the disciples, which are the teachings of Christ. The catholic "church" does not follow the teachings of the disciples, therefore is not a true New Testament church.
Furthermore, Baptists are not protestants. Protestants are those who protested the the catholic "church" and came out of the catholic "church" because it would not reform.
Baptists were never part of the catholic "church."

The message that we have and the message that we are to "teach all nations" are the same; Christ crucified.
Not all Baptists are saved, so I'm not saying one has to be a Baptist in order to be saved. Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone.
If one truly believes the false teachings of catholicism then that person does not know Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Same with those who teach one must be baptized in order to be saved. Salvation is not by faith in Jesus and baptism, but through Jesus alone.
Anything in addition to Christ makes it a false teaching and Jesus' death on the cross insufficient.

 

I know 2 catholics who are saved.But then they are not 100% in line with Roman Catholic doctrine.

 

I really don't believe I do for I don't think you really know what the Catholic church believes. Do you know that the Catholic church believes justification is based entirely on the sacrifice of Christ by His shed blood?

Certainly agree one can be religious and be lost. I am not a religious person, for those of religion are of religious "rites", or works, that of observing things not pertaining to them, and of worshiping things the world holds dear in their religion/s. Things not given to them by God to hold dear in their hearts. Catholics do this, as do Baptists, and all other denominations.

I agree with you that any that say all the right words, but do not believe in their hearts that it is only through Christ Jesus that they can be in His Body. If any don't believe this they have already been judged; If not, how can we condemn any individual in that system or any other, for we just don't know?

Amen for us working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. We need to be very careful in our judgments - "Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God", I Corinthians 4:5.

Again agree, but we had better be right. The Catholic church and individuals therein believe they are justified by His shed blood, and I will not be a party to judging and condemning any system, or individual that says that. What I do feel safe in doing is saying without equivocation is religions such as those that put their faith in the religions devoid of the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I can judge and condemn the system of Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and those of Spiritism apart from the Holy Spirit such as Unitarian-Universalism and Scientology, and any other religions that refuse and are blinded. But I cannot judge the Catholic, Methodist, church of Christ, Christian, Presbyterian, Lutheran or any other that preaches the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior.

Did you notice you did not include the Catholic church in this paragraph?

You are consistent for you condemned them to hell already in the above paragraph.

Christ says I am justified through faith. He does not lie.

We are to believe the whole Bible. We are to believe Jesus while on earth as man, and we must believe Christ Jesus as He speaks to us today from heaven.

If the Catholic church believes in God without His Word (Christ Jesus, the I AM) then judge away, for you are justified in your judging. But if the Catholic church believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God, what will you tell Christ when you met Him? There are over one billion Catholics in the world, and you are going to tell Jesus Christ you have already saved Him a lot of time and condemned those that believe in His name to hell?

 

Hello pasdave. I was asking the question if that particular Baptist church preached they are to believe the message of the "great commission". The gospel of John the Baptist is not directed to or at me in this dispensation.

But we do find the Catholic church does believe the "great commission", the gospel for the Jewish Apostolic church, the Pentecostal church. They are of the "kingdom is at hand" gospel as preached by Peter. They look to justification by faith as preached by Peter in Acts 2:38.

The "great commission" is a message, a gospel, and it is the gospel of John the Baptist to the nation of Israel. John, just as Jesus did not have a message, a gospel for the heathen, but for His own people for whom Jesus said He came for. Matthew 3:2, "And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." And we know John's gospel to God's nation was preached to them, and them alone, "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins", Mark 1:4.

Mark 1:14-15, "Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."

How can we be sure this gospel is only for His own people, His own nation that He chose from all of the peoples on the earth? These are those He wishes to be with throughout all eternity? Matthew 10:5-7, "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand." Jesus is saying drop dead ituttut, I did not come for you. Scripture shows and teaches in the Old Testament the Jew is to distance themselves from the Gentile. Come as a proselyte, yes, and be circumcised, observing the Sabbath that God gave to Israel (Exodus 16:29). They were to make blood sacrifices, and keep all of the Law and the ordinances thereof. But they are still Gentiles, never to enter into the "inner court" of the Temple. His people are to "serve Him", and the Gentile is to serve His people.

Agree the Baptist church did not come out of the Catholic church, as the Catholic church does allow other churches to be associated with them. The Lutheran church was not in the Catholic church, nor the Presbyterian, Methodist, or any other. But men that came out of the Catholic church (protesters as you say) started these churches, and other churches.

I can't prove who started the Baptist denomination so I'll make no attempt, and I can't prove our denomination didn't come out of the mother church. Perhaps you can help in this matter as you seem to have information I have been unable to find, viz. "Baptists were never part of the catholic "church."

Jesus told His people it was they, Israel, that were to "teach all nations". Jesus while on this earth never instructed a Gentile to carry the "kingdom is at hand" gospel to the world. That gospel of justification was by faith as Paul informs in Romans 3:30, " Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."

We get our instructions and authority to carry the "grace commission" to the whole world from the gospel of Paul, not Peter. We Gentile will hear the Word of God. Acts 28:25-29, "And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26. Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27. For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."

We are to hear and understand the Jewish Pentecostal members are justified by faith, their core church headquartered in the city of Jerusalem. We are to hear and understand also the "dispensational" Christian (Jew and Gentile) members are justified through faith, their core church headquartered in the city of Antioch.

 

They believe they are justified by faith, by His blood. We know we are justified through faith, and come through His blood

Then you believe as I of the two gospels of justification. But I cannot condemn James, for He says salvation is not by faith only. The Catholics believe the gospel of Peter and James for they did works, as do the Catholic's, for faith by itself is dead (according to James).

Where are you getting your information? Catholics believe Jesus Christ is their savior.

Revelation is His final Word to John about Israel, His people and His wrath to come on this world. This book is not written to us today about our salvation, but to those in the tribulation.

To whom did Christ give His "dispensational gospel" of reconciling the world unto Himself? Have you never read Acts 9? What about Galatians 1:11-12? Ephesians 2:8, or Ephesians 3:1-11, "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward……….."

Again, who are you listening to, or reading. You believe in the "Trinity"? So do they. You believe Jesus Christ is your savior? So do they. You accuse them of believing an imposter, and if so you do also, for they believe Jesus Christ while He was on this earth.

The "elect" here are those of Israel, for provision beyond proselysation had not been made for we Gentiles. You have a lot more to judge and condemn for the Catholic church was not in existence during the time of the Apostles. Have you ever heard any of the "protestant" preachers on TV, Radio, or in churches claiming Powers supernatural. Do you also condemn every one of them, and all their followers?