Saved Catholics?

soulman,

Amen:thumbs:

 

Christ alone is not part of the Church of Rome theology.
Mary is added to faith in Christ and called the co-redemptrix with Christ.

If you study the Roman doctrines of Marian theology, the only conclusion one can come to is that Mary's part in the sufferings of Christ must be part of one's faith to effect salvation.

http://www.voxpopuli.org/book_1_5.php

HankD

 

When people ask me my religion, I simply respond that I am a Christian through God's grace and a Baptist by choice.

Honestly, I would prefer to be called a Biblicist...I follow the Bible.

Religion (identifying yourself with a denomination so that you would follow blindly) is so burdensome. Religion can't save you. No religion can save you (not Baptists, not Catholics, not Church of Christ....).

Only Christ can save a person.

If we add anything to our salvation, then we are trusting in what we do rather then Christ. My salvation had nothing to do with what I have done. I'm a sinner, I deserve Hell, and my works done for Him were nothing but filthy rags.

Therefore, if a Catholic is believing in the church's doctrine (of mass, hail Mary's, confessions, Our father's,....) then they are trusting in what they do. Much like the person earlier who spoke of their friend that converted from Baptist to Catholic to be in more control of his life....But GOD is supposed to have control. That would worry me if that was my friend.

Again, is it not my responsibility to question someone's salvation...but I do worry about some.

Furthermore, there are some Fundamentalist Baptist's that I worry about when I hear them preach, "If you are doing "X" in your life (i.e, lady wearing pants, smoking, drinking) then I would seriously question your salvation." By preaching that you are in essence saying that by NOT doing those things, I am saved? That's adding works, also.

My salvation was simple and easy (as it is supposed to be). I trusted in Christ and Christ alone. Now, that does not give me the liberty to sin all that I want to do. But rather, now that I'm saved, I sin MORE then I want to.

I believe that there are many people (even on this forum) who will miss heaven by the proverbial 18 inches (the distance b/n the head and the heart). Many people on this forum KNOW about God. They acknowledge Jesus as his Son and believe in heaven and hell, but...

It's not head knowledge that saves you but HEART knowledge.

How do you know that you are going to heaven if you died today? What about if you died 10 years from now?

I have peace...do you?

 

Do we have real documentation that we came of the Waldenses, or the later Anabaptists? If we did then are we not "protesters"? Could the Waldenses perhaps be "protesters" out of the 3rd century Novatians, or even of Novatian that set himself up as an opposing Pope? These guys go back to Peter (they claim). Those that are of the "great commission", Popes, began long before your dates of 300-400.

Be nice if we could trace back to Paul, but we can't, and in all honesty I don't believe it has been nailed down as to when the Baptist denomination began or was founded. Some say we go back to John the Baptist, which is ridicules if not inane. Somewhere around 1523 I believe could be a good guess, but I wouldn't hang my hat on it.

I find a good definition for the word "denomination" is a group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith. That sounds Baptist to me.

Just on computer a short time ago, and answered this post. See you have another to me, but way past my bedtime. Hope to be able to get on computer sometime after lunch to answer.

 

Have been trying to post for hours...couldn't get into BB.

I don't remember saying "entirely". The answer is in my above statement, and you say it as well, but do not see it. They believe as did the Jewish church, and that is by faith. They believe they are "conditionally saved". They must endure until the end, just as those of Israel. They believe in that justification, and I don't. I do not believe in the "great commission" by faith justification. I say (they may not) their justification is by faith in Him for they acknowledge such, as they evidently believe as did Peter of "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins".

They say the rosary over and over; and are baptized, and say the "Lord's Prayer",and say it over and over; and say their "hail Marys" for they are of "works", and believe they have to do these things. The Baptist church is not to believe any of this for we are not justified by faith.

As to sacrificing Christ more than once, do any Baptist's do the same thing? Yes they do. I don't know if you are one of those in this matter or are not. No earthly church has "clean skirts", only some members that belong to the "denominations".

I'm afraid you are not listening to what the Word is saying to you. I do not believe my "works" has anything to do with my being "justified in Him". It is His works that count, and not mine. And I don't believe in any ordinance brought into the Body of Christ from those of "works" in this "dispensation".

I thought you may believe as I, viz. of the gospel of Paul, and not of Peter and James who are of works. You are saying you have to do a work or you are not saved - Your quote above "because we need to work to have true faith to be saved". Paul tells James He is wrong for salvation today, and you are mouthing James, so are you of of "I'll show you my works, for without the works my faith is dead"? Is not your faith in Jesus Christ? Aren't you saying His works are not good enough to save you?

Have you never understood James, Peter, John and rest in the church of the first born in Jerusalem shook hands with Paul and said they would not preach or go to the uncircumcised with their gospel? They no longer had the authority and they never preached to or at the uncircumcised dogs, with the exception of Peter that was forced to by Christ Jesus from heaven. This was done in order for those of the Apostolic church to know that Paul was the Apostle to the Gentile as he (Paul) was given the gospel to preach to the Gentile.

Yes you quote Jesus as man who said He came only for His own, and they (His own) will know the evil ones by their works, but we also know Christ told Paul to tell us what to look for in the evildoers, and we know our work is good for we do it for our Lord.

As to works, have you noticed those that are saved by faith (Israel) continued in their works, and those that come by continue to mention this often. The church in Jerusalem, and those in Judah still kept the Sabbath, they still continued to be circumcised. They still continued to be baptized for the remission of their sins, as the "great commission" demands, and they still made blood sacrifice.

I consider myself already in heaven as I am in the Body of Christ spiritually through His faith, and His Works. You say "Faith + works = nothing" right above, but previously I thought you agreed with James that faith by itself is dead, meaning works must be necessary. But now you are saying even "with works" faith is dead

 

Thanks HandD. But is this not then being justified by faith? They have extra baggage just as all that are by faith. The Catholic's have a Creed, The Nicene Creed - It reads: "We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."


Theology is not a religion but the study man does to form opinions of God and His workings. The above Creed is a statement of what the Catholic church believes, and it is not all that different from what we believe. But I see a difference and it is of "justification", I believe.


From the above Creed, I cannot condemn all Catholics to the lake of fire. Is this the "good works we are born too"? Theology can get all churches into trouble, but some members in the different churches stick with the Bible, and not that which comes from mans theological studies.

Don't get me wrong, as we do need the systematic study, the hermeneutics. We are to look at the whole picture and understand Israelology, the Covenant people that God asked to be His own, the time before the Old Testament, and the Old Testament, then Old Testament that Jesus lived in; and then Pentecost in the New Testament, and the Dispensation we live in these New Testament times.

We need the study of Bibliology, Anthropology, Soteriology, Ecclesiology, and all the others, but we must make certain we know what is "written to us" for our justification, to be certain we build on the correct foundation that is presented to us from heaven.

 

Yes chadnrachel. That is what OSAS will do for us. We're now waiting for the rapture and not the kingdom that was at hand. We look to be in the same Body, but I don't know if we are neighbors. It's an huge, really huge place up there.

 

Very good thread. I hate I do not have the time to say much.

The danger of the internet, is that some believe if its on a Baptist site , it must be right. Many Baptist groups have tried to rewrite history. This "roots back to the early church" is wogwash. If one does a simply study of history on their own, they will see this plainly. Some of the groups that these rewriters like to claim along the trail of this path back to the early church is nothing but heresies and cults. This is done by the rewriters, not in a fact finding mission, but in order that they can say they did not come from the RCC.

This is nothing more then landmarkism.


The fact is, we are " protestants"

 

Yes, That is the danger of the internet - some have re-written history.

Baptists were (& should always remain) separatists from the evils of the other churches. Baptists were not and should not become 'Protestors'.

'That' evil was not landmarkism. 'That' was why we separated.

 

Why are non-Baptists in the Baptist area?

Are ya'll gonna convert to the Faith?

If not move to the other denominations area. . .

 

As it turns out no "conversion" is needed. Tis Baptist now. The Board knows of my church and this has been over before.

Thanks for asking

Here is a idea...Read a history book.

Being that you claim to be a landmarkist, why not list the groups of this so called trail of blood then we will look and see if you hold to what they held to.

Though I hold to a separated life, all groups that "separate" are not the best groups in the world. JWs live a separted life. Mormans live a separted life. Amish are separted and come from the Ana-Baptist.

Ana-Baptist Schleitheim Confession

Do you know any Baptist that own guns or have served in the war or have been a magistrate? I know of some.

While we are talking about Ana-Baptist...you know the group that "did not come out of the Catholic church"? There is one small matter to deal with. Its not true. Now that may not matter to you, but I happen to like to know that facts of history.

http://www.bibleviews.com/Schleitheim-JCWenger.html

Another group that landmarkers claim as early Baptist are Docetists who did not believe Christ was a real man...

http://www.eucharisticlife.com/ELimages/Timeline/200/Ignatius.html

To me, this just does not sound like Baptist faith to me. What do you think?

Would you like to see more of your so called trail of Blood? Plz feel free to post other groups.

In Christ...James

 

Have you ever heard a Baptist pray to be forgiven for their sins? He died once for us, and that took care of our sins. If one keeps on praying for Him to forgive their sins are they not asking Jesus Christ to die again for their sins?

You must have me mixed up with someone else, for I do not mix ordinances given to Israel with my faith. Do you adhere to any of the "LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinance", Ephesians 2:15, and Colossians 2:14? If so, then you are mixing. Justification through faith is not of works, and no "ordinances" are brought from Israel, the covenant people to the Christian.

 

Hello EL-Guero! I'm Baptist from the age of 9.

I'm in the faith of Christ? How about you?

At least you agree the Baptist church is a denomination.

 

Amen to we continue to sin, but since He finished His work, why would we doubt He did, and continue to ask Him to forgive us of our sins, which sins have already been forgiven?? It is those of the circumcision, those justified by faith in the "blood of animals to hold them" until the end. Their gospel was to continually make blood sacrifices of animals for that blood could not save, but only hold them if they continued to confess their sins by spilling the blood of animals.

You perhaps are using I John 1:9 which is the "kingdom program" of the Jew which is "conditional" salvation of enduring until the end. For the Christian today I cannot find we are to be justified by that faith of "our blood sacrifices" and continual atonement, but justified through the faith of Jesus Christ who is our atonement. He went to the Cross Once, and so do we. The power is in the blood, His blood, for there is life therein.

We see the "kingdom program" (Not the rapture) in II Peter 1:9, "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." Those of the "kingdom" belief by faith were to continue in their faith, which they did as shown by Peter, and also John in I John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Of course we know Peter, John and the rest are saved, for they endureed until the end, and the blood of Christ is how they are "justified" in death. This is what the Catholic hope they can do. Endure until the end, not by making blood sacrifice, but believing they must "repent, and be baptized for the remission of their sin". They use this ordinance under the law that we know was nailed to the Cross, and they keep "repenting and ask to be forgiven", hoping to make it to the end.

But should it also be ours? Surely not for we today are justified through faith. There is an Apostle today to the Gentile, and to the Jew. Paul magnifies his office to the Gentile. He wants us to notice him also. Christ from heaven chose him, Paul, and him only as His One Apostle to the Gentile, and now also the Jew. Paul does not teach us to sacrifice the blood of animals to hold us until we die. "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ", Galatians 1:11-12.

What message (gospel) does Christ send to we today? Colossians 1:14, "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins". This is His blood we come Through; not By the blood of animals as required by those of the "circumcision" gospel.

We are to know all of God's Word, but we are to concentrate on what applies to us today. We find in the Epistles of Paul our salvation that we acquire Through Christ Jesus. Please notice what Paul says we must confess; It is the Lord Jesus we confess (Romans 10:9) for it is in Him that our sins have been taken away. Oh how we need to Praise and Thank Him for what He has done for us. He took away our sins (Ephesians 1:7) . We go back to that Cross once where atonement was made for us. Our attention is now on Him in heaven, for that is where we have already been placed in Him. Ephesians 2:5-6, "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

 

That would be fine ituttut except that the Nicean Creed is not all that they are required to believe. Four of the 5 Marian dogma have been exhalted to "binding upon the faithful" at the price of excommunication, denial of the sacraments and the loss of salvation.

That is not to say that practicing Catholics can't be saved. If their hope is in Christ alone by faith in Him alone then they are saved. They are not "good" Catholics but saved nonetheless (IMO).

HankD