Saved Catholics?

Soulman,

I have studied catholicisim and I have studied the bible. They are opposite. As I said, they may say the right things at times, but they are speaking of A DIFFERENT CHRIST! He doesn't save. He is a phoney. Anybody that believes the RCC doctrines will die and go to hell according to the scriptures. .

Catholicism is not expedient for salvation. That is why I am no longer there. But I gather that your "study" included only what you wanted it too include.

And why is Jesus tip-toing through the tulips?

I simply asserted that Jesus is faithful to save anyone who calls upon His name in true belief. It is you who have added to the plan of salvation - denying the sole sufficiency of the blood and insisting that the believer must worship this or that way.

The fruit of belief is a changed life, a desire to live a Christ-centered life. In your mind it would seem that the fruit of conversion is becoming a legalist, condemning everyone different than you.

I will not rise to defend any plan of salvation that does not inlcude a risen savior. But I will not be so presumptious as to say that only this or that denomination contains true Christians.

 

Soulman,
It seems your point is based on the premise that all Catholics perfectly adhere to Catholic doctrine. You seem to look at the world through a framework of black and white, and that is not how life works. No one here is defending Catholic doctrine, or admiring it as a open door to a salvation experience.

That is not the point. The point is that you said "No Catholics are saved" which you have no idea in reality.

Since you like absolutes, here is a question for you to ponder. Which number is greater, saved Catholics, or unsaved Baptists?

 

Let me answer that question for you.
Everyone in our Baptist church is saved. They can't be a member if they are not. If they are not saved and claim to be a member they are automatically not a member by default, for the church (our local) is composed only of regenerated and baptized members, and no others. Thus all of our members, 100% are saved.
Very few, if any of any given Catholic (local) church are saved. I speak from experience. I was a Catholic for twenty years and never heard the gospel once. I never knew of a true Christian in the Catholic churches that I attended. If there were any, they were silent. Would that be the evidence of a Christian? Having said that, when I became saved, I did not leave the Catholic Church for two years. It takes time to grow, and the Catholic Church had had a tight grasp on me for the last 20 years. I wasn't all of a sudden a strong mature Christian. Thus for two years I was a saved Christian in a Catholic Church. I am sure there are others that may be in the same type of situation.

However, I do not believe that there can be anyone (such as a Catholic apologist) who fully understands Biblical salvation, and all the Catholic doctrine at the same time and still be saved. That is an impossibility. One has to choose between one or the other.
DHK

 

Everyone in our Baptist church is saved. They can't be a member if they are not. If they are not saved and claim to be a member they are automatically not a member by default, for the church (our local) is composed only of regenerated and baptized members, and no others. Thus all of our members, 100% are saved.

The truth is that salvation is an individual phenomenon. Everyone in your church has professed Christ and been baptized. You do not however know whether or not there are some who truly never accepted Christ. In the RCC (of which I too was a member for 20 years) there is heterogeneity of churches. In the strictest marialotric parishes I think it is likely that no one in the congregation is saved. In more moderate RCC churches there certainly are some Christians. As to whether or not these will eventually leave the RCC - that depends on the climate of that church. If the gospel is given priority over RCC traditions then the person may well choose to remain there. I know of several such members in moderate RCC churches.

The fact that someone is in a baptist church does not guarantee salvation - although in general baptist doctrine is far more biblical the RCC doctrine. I fear however that many members of arch-legalist IFB churches are in almost as much danger as those in RCC churches. A preacher who spends every sermon shouting about what he is against and who is not going to heaven does NOT know Jesus.

 

I stand by my statement. Everyone in our church is saved.
I did not say everyone in our church building is saved, for the church is the people not the building. We have many visitiors, acquaintances, etc. that attend. They are not a part of our church. Not everyone that attends is a part or a member of our church. Only those that have been saved, baptized and havinng read the constitution and agreed to it, by a vote of the membership of the church are accepted into the church. Obviously if they are not saved they are not a member, whether we know about it or not. The church belongs to God. He is the ultimate head, not man. He knows the heart, not man. He knows who is saved, not man. We only have the testimony of man to go on, and his works. There are pretenders. They may pretend to be a member but in God's sight they are not. What did John say:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
--They pretended to be members; but they were not. "They were not of us." A pretender (as Judas was) is not a true disciple, and a pretender in the church is not a true member. Only the truly saved are true members of the church. If one is not saved, by default he is not a member.
DHK