Saved During The Great Tribulation

Yep, everybody would rather listen to millionare fiction writers than
to poor disciples in the Bible.

Of course, watch out for strawmen with
(parden the pun ) heartburn.

 

OK, OldRegular---here goes something---

2Thessalonians 2:1-7---with an emphasis on verse 7 which reads, "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only He who now letteth will let, unti He be taken out of the way."

I believe that some intrepret this "taken out of the way" to mean that the Holy Spirit makes a departure into Heaven from Earth----but----I take it to mean---something sorta like a flood gate---that restrains a river---and when the gate is lifted---taken out of the way----the river water gushes to the lowest spot available and fills up the void from there.---again---its sorta like--you've ever been to a rodeo--and have watched the bull ridin' events----they have that bull latched up inside that holding pen---and the bull rider mounts the bull---and the buzzer sounds---and suddenly the gate opens(is moved out of the way--no longer restraining)and the bull comes chargin' out!! Now, the gate is still there---but not in a "restraining" capacity!! Hope this helps explain.

Blackbird

 

OldRegular: "I thought it was the followers of Darby/Scofield who taught ... "

Strawman Detect Waaah Ogga Waaah Ogga Strawman Detect

Nobody posting here has claimed to be a
follower of Darby. Nobody posting here has claimed
to be a follower of Scofield. I claim you
are a builder of strawmen and a tilter with
windmills

 

2 Thess. 2:6-7 say nothing about Holy Spirit begins removed from earth as rapture.

Pretrib misinterpreting 2 Thess. 2:6-7.

2 Thess. 2:7 - "...only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

Who is 'he' of verse 7? Holy Spirit?

The context of verse 7 of 'he' goes back to verse 3 speaks of 'man of sin' is Antichrist, not Holy Spirit.

Wird, 'letteth' of KJv 2 Thess. 2:7 is a weak word. Greek word says, 'hold back' more clear than KJV. Because KJV translated from Greek-Textus Receptus. 'Letteth'(hold back) means being restraining.

2 Thess. 2:6-8 telling us, Satan is now holding back from being to be revaled. God does not allow Satan to be revealed, because his(Satan) time is not yet- vs. 6. Satan is now holding back. Who causes Satan being holding back? By God. Of course, God is Holy Spirit as trinity. Why Satan is now holding back? Because God does not allow Satan to be revealed to the world, God wants people of the world to hear the gospel to be saved. That why, God already give the key to the Church, so, Church can spread the gospel over the world - Matt. 16:18-19. When churches become apostasy, many Christians who start to forsake Lord, and fall into sins. The revivals become fade or decline. That is 'falling away' of 2 Thess. 2:3. God will be fed up with Christians who fall away and sins. Then, when God knows the right time to come, then God will allow Satan to be loosed out of the way(midst) - 2 Thess. 2:7, THEN, Satan shall be revealed - 2 Thess. 2:8 for a little seaon time(Rev. 20:3,7) to deceived the nations, also more severe or worst persecute against Christ - 'great tribulation' of Matt. 24:21.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Your Augustinianism, along with your belittling and childish name-calling is getting old hat. Get over it.
DHK

 

The Holy Spirit enters them
and takes their soul to heaven. </font>[/QUOTE]So...people get saved without the Holy Spirit because He has been removed (contrary to scripture), but, somehow, when they get saved the Holy Spirit wings down out of Heaven for an instant and sucks their newly redeemed soul from out of their bodies and whisks it to heaven? Is that what I just read? So their bodies are walking around without souls? Do they instantly die? Are they raptured individually one at a time? Your gonna have to expound on this one with some scripture. I've heard some strange things but I've never heard of soulless bodies walking around in scripture!

You can't have it both ways, either the HS is here on earth and therefore, NOT the restrainer OR people are somehow saved WITHOUT the HS. Which is it? He can't 'sort-of' be present; either He is or He isn't, there is no middle ground. Just like you can't be 'sort-of' pregnant!

 

Danrusdad: "So...people get saved without the Holy Spirit because He has been removed (contrary to scripture), ... "

As usual, you confuse my description with your erroneous
preconceptions. You haven't the foggiest what i said.
Well, Sir, you need to understand what i say to logically
be "again' it".

If you listened closely, you would have noted that i
believe the gentiles saved in the Tribulation Period would
be beheaded as soon as they FIRST confess "Jesus is Lord".
They will never have time to be baptized. They will be
stillborn, dead the moment of rebirth.

Darusdad: "You can't have it both ways, either the HS is here on earth and therefore, NOT the restrainer OR people are somehow saved WITHOUT the HS. "

You have a false dilimma. In fact, the
Holy Spirit is on earth during the Tribulation
PERIOD and the restrainer of the Antichrist
during the Church Age. People never did get
saved without the Holy Spirit.

Now, tell us how people get saved now.
Tell us, according to your eschatological
dogma, how does a person get saved now?
(and what is now? is it tribulation? is it
Church Age, is it the physical Kingdom of
God? or something else?)

 

I found the scripture in Revelation 20:4 which
you discarded with the rest of Revelation 20
cause you couldn't figure out how 2 Peter 3:10
fit in with Revelation 20.

Rev 20:4 (KJV1611 edition):
And I saw thrones, and they sate vpon them, and iudgement was giuen vnto them: & I saw the soules of them that were beheaded for the witnesse of Iesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had receiued his marke vpon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they liued and reigned with Christ a thousand yeeres.

This describes two groups of people:

1. those who sat on thrones - the people
who were resurrected/raptured at the pretrib
rapture/resurrection.
2. those who had their head lifted
"for the witnesse of Iesus"

IMHO the meaning of "were beheaded for the witnesse of Iesus" is what i said:

ed: the gentiles saved in the Tribulation Period would
be beheaded as soon as they FIRST confess "Jesus is Lord".
They will never have time to be baptized. They will be
stillborn, dead the moment of rebirth.


Again i ask:
Now, tell us how people get saved now.
Tell us, according to your eschatological
dogma, how does a person get saved now?
(and what is now? is it tribulation? is it
Church Age, is it the physical Kingdom of
God? or something else?)

Here is an example from a pretrib, pre-mill
position:

--------------------------
\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

Five Resurrections
Found in the Holy Bible
Compared and Contrasted

The Lord God is a resurrecting God.

Definitions:

New Testament: God's contract on goy
Old Testament: God's contract on Yisrael
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
Saint: a person on God's list (AKA: Book of Life)
Tribulation: AKA: The Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:4-7);
--Yisrael passing under the rod (Ezekiel 20:34-3;
--Melting Pot (Ezekiel 22:19-22);
--Time of Trouble (Daniel 12:1); etc.
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
goy - Yisraeli term for gentiles (probably slightly derogotory)
Yisrael - Transliteration of the Hebrew term for "Israel" into English.

How to get on God's list:

Romans 10:9 (KJV): That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved.


1. Resurrection of Jesus
WHO: Jesus
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal; because of the
resurrection of Jesus, all the other resurrections
are possible
References: Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6-8


2. Resurrection of some Old Testament Saints
WHO: Some of those who died before Jesus believeing God, especially
those who believed in God's Messiah
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: mostly in Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal

3. Resurrection of the New Testament Saints
WHO: Church age (AKA: times of the Gentiles) Saints; balance
of the Old Testament Saints
WHEN: Some date after 26 May 2004;
at the end of the Church Age; at the beginning of
the Tribulation
WHERE: Worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal;
this resurrection is followed in but a
moment by the translation of the living
saints into a glorified heavenly body like
that of Jesus
References: 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

4. Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints
WHO: Those beheaded for faith in Jesus; those
who reject the Mark of the Beast
WHEN: at the end of the Tribulation; at the
beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal
References: Revelation 20:4-6,

5. Resurrection of the non-Saints
WHO: All those throughout time who have rejected Jesus
WHEN: At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
at the beginning of eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: i don't know, God does
HOW: i don't know, God does
WHAT: Raised to eternal shame & damnation
References: Revelation 20:12-15

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
resurrections above
does not preclude other resurrections. The Lord God
is a resurrecting God and His hand is not shortened
by his revelation to us or
by our understaning of His revelation to us.
For example: Two Witnesses shall
be resurrected in the middle of the Tribulation.

There is a pastoral picture of the four resurrections
for which the resurrection of Jesus was a precusor
(numbered here as above):

2. The First Fruits (Matthew 27:22-53)

3. The Harvest (1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

4. The Gleanings (Revelation 7:14, 20:4)

5. The Tares (Matthew 13:28-30)

Sometimes the Holy Bible calls resurrections 2-4, the resurrections
of the just: The First Resurrection (because all the
resurrections of the just preceede the resurrection
of the unjust).

The following scriptures seem to imply a simultaneous
resurrection of the just and the wicked dead:
Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29 (all resurrected
in the same hour), Acts 24:15. Revelation 20-4-6
cleary notes that the just are raised one day
(a 1,000 year long day) before the unjust.

CAUTION: The numbering scheme 1 to 5 above was arbitrarliy
assigned to enable the discussion. There is nothing
sacred or Biblical about this numbering scheme.

May Jesus our Savior and our Master be Praised!

Note that ressurrections #2 and #3 are accompanied
by a rapture of living saints.

--compilation by ed, incurable Jesus Phreaque

 

I'm criticized for telling who said this stuff:
"So are you telling us that these poor beheaded Gentiles receive resurrection bodies and ascend to heaven as soon as they are beheaded? "

No, i think i said they die. What happens to someone
in this time if they die in Christ?
I think thier body is disposed of and thier soul
goes to heavnen. So in the tribulation those gentiles
who are beheaded in Christ will have died in Christ.
Forces of the Antichrist will dispose of their body
and their soul will go to heaven.

 

I agree with no such nonsense.

You are having a common problem among
/derogatory density word deleted/ -
the inability to understand that the
same word can have different meanings at
different times.

In Revelation 20:1-6 'soul' means 'person'.
In other passagers 'soul' means the eternal
part of a person.

Your soul argument falls flat on it's face.
BTW, while your diversionary argument fell
flat on it's face, my dozens of excellent
points lending toward the pretribulation
rapture of the church of the Living God
go unchallenged.

 

Awful good to see humbleness on this board....

 

Hi Monday morning quarterback
(is there a basketball illustation here?)
what do you think:
will Gentiles be saved during the
Great Tribulation?

Expect attack against your response from three
different directions

 

Ed,

How will the Gentiles get saved during the Great Tribulation?

Simple.

Read Revelation 14:9-12:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Simple. All that the Gentiles do is refuse the MARK of the BEAST will survive and go into the Millenium. SAY NO to the MARK!!

Deafmidweeker

 

Ed,

How will the Gentiles get saved during the Great Tribulation?

Simple.

Read Revelation 14:9-12:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Simple. All that the Gentiles do is refuse the MARK of the BEAST will survive and go into the Millenium. SAY NO to the MARK!!

Deafmidweeker