Saved from what ?

[pinoybaptist]

Many on this board insist that in order for a person to be eternally saved that person must know and believe in Christ and obey the gospel. One quoted plenty of Scriptures to back up this insistence on knowledge and obedience as prerequisites to the efficacy of the blood of Christ, shed both figuratively and literally, from the foundation of the world, and at the cross of Calvary 3000 years ago.
Yet, these same individuals will pounce on anyone who might have the temerity to say that obedience to the law and good works are likewise requirements to the eternal salvation of souls, and will insist that grace is unmerited favor.
For the record, I stand for neither knowledge of, and obedience to, the gospel nor good works and the law in regards to eternal salvation.
Knowledge of and obedience to the gospel is clearly commanded by the Bible, without a doubt, but NOT UNTO ETERNAL SALVATION, but rather, to salvation from dead works and idols. Knowledge and obedience are fruits of preaching and teaching to a regenerate soul.
The Lord Jesus sent out His apostles, commanding them to PREACH and TEACH, and to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and uncontestably said that those who obey and are baptized shall be saved.
One man on this board asked with regards to a statement made by Oprah, “faith in what ?”, and so I ask, “saved from what ?”. Here is the Word Himself, who created Heaven and earth and all things in them simply by speaking, and there is no God like Him for there is and was no one before Him, full of wisdom and purpose and the only truly Holy Uncreated Being in the entire cosmos and all other cosmoses, and shall He leave something He purposed incomplete ?
Didn’t He just rise from the dead ?
Didn’t He, just three days prior, accept the bitter cup from His Father and experienced the mockery and insults and pain inflicted on Him by the Roman whip and the devil-whipped crowd ?
Doesn’t the Scripture state in no uncertain terms that “He shall save His people from their sins” and didn’t He just cry out on that cross, “IT IS FINISHED” ?
Aren’t we to understand that He finished what He came to do ?
Didn’t the writer of Hebrews state that “by His own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us” and that with one sacrifice he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified?
Obviously, Jesus Christ being the very Word by which the Heavens and the Earth created, would not now turn around and do a DUNCE act which is that of assigning the completion of the task for which His Father bore the painful sight of His Son dangling on the cross to mere human knowledge and frail obedience, would he ?
Nor to the non-ability of those with Him on that mount to be everywhere and anywhere at all times which God in the Person of the Holy Spirit is able to do, would He ?
So, saved from what ?
If Christ already accomplished what He came to do, full, complete, nothing wanting, then what else will they be saved from, in accordance to His statement on the mount ?

 

[DrJamesAch]

Many on this board insist that in order for a person to be eternally saved that person must know and believe in Christ and obey the gospel. One quoted plenty of Scriptures to back up this insistence on knowledge and obedience as prerequisites to the efficacy of the blood of Christ, shed both figuratively and literally, from the foundation of the world, and at the cross of Calvary 3000 years ago.
Yet, these same individuals will pounce on anyone who might have the temerity to say that obedience to the law and good works are likewise requirements to the eternal salvation of souls, and will insist that grace is unmerited favor.
For the record, I stand for neither knowledge of, and obedience to, the gospel nor good works and the law in regards to eternal salvation.
Knowledge of and obedience to the gospel is clearly commanded by the Bible, without a doubt, but NOT UNTO ETERNAL SALVATION, but rather, to salvation from dead works and idols. Knowledge and obedience are fruits of preaching and teaching to a regenerate soul.
The Lord Jesus sent out His apostles, commanding them to PREACH and TEACH, and to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and uncontestably said that those who obey and are baptized shall be saved.
One man on this board asked with regards to a statement made by Oprah, “faith in what ?”, and so I ask, “saved from what ?”. Here is the Word Himself, who created Heaven and earth and all things in them simply by speaking, and there is no God like Him for there is and was no one before Him, full of wisdom and purpose and the only truly Holy Uncreated Being in the entire cosmos and all other cosmoses, and shall He leave something He purposed incomplete ?
Didn’t He just rise from the dead ?
Didn’t He, just three days prior, accept the bitter cup from His Father and experienced the mockery and insults and pain inflicted on Him by the Roman whip and the devil-whipped crowd ?
Doesn’t the Scripture state in no uncertain terms that “He shall save His people from their sins” and didn’t He just cry out on that cross, “IT IS FINISHED” ?
Aren’t we to understand that He finished what He came to do ?
Didn’t the writer of Hebrews state that “by His own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us” and that with one sacrifice he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified?
Obviously, Jesus Christ being the very Word by which the Heavens and the Earth created, would not now turn around and do a DUNCE act which is that of assigning the completion of the task for which His Father bore the painful sight of His Son dangling on the cross to mere human knowledge and frail obedience, would he ?
Nor to the non-ability of those with Him on that mount to be everywhere and anywhere at all times which God in the Person of the Holy Spirit is able to do, would He ?
So, saved from what ?
If Christ already accomplished what He came to do, full, complete, nothing wanting, then what else will they be saved from, in accordance to His statement on the mount ?

So you believe in Christian Universalism? That's exactly what this is.

 

[Amy.G]

I believe in the D.O.G., but how can you just ignore what Jesus Himself said?

16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

 

[psalms109:31]

Hebrew 4

4 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.[Some manuscripts because those who heard did not combine it with faith] 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.


We are saved from condemnation for entering His rest not what we desire to be rest but to rest in Christ. To lean on Him not our own understanding. To repent turn to God through Jesus Christ our salvation.

 

[saturneptune]

So you believe in Christian Universalism? That's exactly what this is.

That is not his point. For one thing, he is saying a deeper understanding of and obeying the Gospel somes after salvation. Although we have some disagreement on the degree and manner of God's sovereignty, he is saying that the elect will be saved, and that obeying Christ is now in the nature of the new Christian, or a byproduct. If one believes God chose us, then obeying and understanding the Gospel are not requirements for salvation. They will happen.

 

[DrJamesAch]

That is not his point. For one thing, he is saying a deeper understanding of and obeying the Gospel somes after salvation. Although we have some disagreement on the degree and manner of God's sovereignty, he is saying that the elect will be saved, and that obeying Christ is now in the nature of the new Christian, or a byproduct. If one believes God chose us, then obeying and understanding the Gospel are not requirements for salvation. They will happen.

That's not what he said. You must have missed the other thread. He specifically stated that faith in Christ was not necessary to salvation, that obedience to faith in Christ is not required. This is not Calvinism where at least in the Calvinist system, it acknowledges that faith in Christ, repentance, obedience to the gospel is still necessary, albeit the differences between how those are viewed among Cals and Non Cals is another matter.

This position is classic Christian Universalism.

From Pinoybaptist:

the elect may die in utter ignorance of his Savior (but knowledge of His Savior was never a requirement for eternal salvation;

That salvation is passive to the elect.
It required nothing.
not faith, not obedience, not knowledge, not any single input from the elect sinner.

 

[kyredneck]

That's not what he said. You must have missed the other thread. He specifically stated that faith in Christ was not necessary to salvation, that obedience to faith in Christ is not required....

No PhonyDoc, he's saying man's choice, man's will. man's decision, has zilch to do with the heavenly birth, i.e. ETERNAL salvation:

who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1:13

Same with DNA, has zilch to do with it.

OTOH, man's faith, man's will, man's decision(s) and obedience has everything to do with entering into the wonderful gospel salvation that God has laid before us.

 

[HisWitness]

No PhonyDoc, he's saying man's choice, man's will. man's decision, has zilch to do with the heavenly birth, i.e. ETERNAL salvation:

who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1:13

Same with DNA, has zilch to do with it.

OTOH, man's faith, man's will, man's decision(s) and obedience has everything to do with entering into the wonderful gospel salvation that God has laid before us.

He's not even a good nurse much less a doc :smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin:

 

[kyredneck]

6 For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.
8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;
11 and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Ro 5

While we were yet weak, sinners, and enemies, Christ justified and reconciled us through His blood. We were TOTALLY PASSIVE in that. We had ZILCH to do with it.

...For our passover also hath been sacrificed, even Christ 1 Cor 5:7

Which points us to the type; on that dreadful night in Egypt it was the father who shed the blood and applied it to the doorpost and lintel, the firstborn was totally passive. The firstborn's faith had nothing to do with whether the blood did what God had promised or not, his faith would have everything to do with the temporal benefit of how he rested that night though.

Which is exactly the same [IMMENSE] temporal benefit, from the gospel, from knowing and believing, that our faith in His blood obtains for us:

11 But Christ having come a high priest of the good things to come, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation,
12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.
13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling them that have been defiled, sanctify unto the cleanness of the flesh:
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish unto God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Heb 9

A clean conscience, the value of which cannot be overstated, is one of the greatest if not the greatest benefit to be had from our temporal [gospel] salvation in this temporal realm. But it is Christ Himself, our High Priest, who with His own blood obtained our eternal redemption, and that while we were yet weak, sick, and enemies.

We were passive, totally.

'who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.'

 

[beameup]

Hebrew 4

Hebrews is written to Hebrews (genetic Israelites).
Stick with Paul as he is THE Apostle to the Gentiles.
We are under grace, and have no part in the Law.

 

[convicted1]

That's not what he said. You must have missed the other thread. He specifically stated that faith in Christ was not necessary to salvation, that obedience to faith in Christ is not required. This is not Calvinism where at least in the Calvinist system, it acknowledges that faith in Christ, repentance, obedience to the gospel is still necessary, albeit the differences between how those are viewed among Cals and Non Cals is another matter.

This position is classic Christian Universalism.

From Pinoybaptist:

What he, Brother Tim(pinoybaptist), is saying is that man is born again from above based solely on God quickening whomsoever He wills, w/o any assistance from man needed whatsoever. After God quickens them, they will then grow in faith, knowledge, grace, etc. He, and most PB's, believe that being born again from above is completely passive on man's side, and active on a Sovereign God's side. Then, they will produce faith, works, growth, etc.

 

[Amy.G]

My apologies brother Pinoy. I misunderstood you. It's been a rough week.
:1_grouphug:

 

[convicted1]

My apologies brother Pinoy. I misunderstood you. It's been a rough week.
:1_grouphug:

IOW, you're saying you're sorry, correct? If that's the case, I second that!! Sissy Amy IS sorry.....the "sorriest of the sorry's.....


*****ducking for cover as I type......

 

[kyredneck]

Actually Pinoy is perfectly capable of answering PhonyDoc on his own, IF he even wants to waste his time to do so.

From casual observance, it is a waste of time, we ALL already have our minds made up on just about everything.

We carry on these endless dialogs to break the monotony in our lives? Or something along those lines. It's definitely not to save poor souls from hell.

Everybody thinks they're defending the truth.

Go figure.

 

[psalms109:31]

Hebrews is written to Hebrews (genetic Israelites).
Stick with Paul as he is THE Apostle to the Gentiles.
We are under grace, and have no part in the Law.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares

We are all are under the Law people who are not even Jews measure the good they do if they do enough good it will out weigh the bad. We need to enter His rest to get the grace through faith. The Jews and Gentiles a like. Can you truly even know about grace without the faith that brought you to it?

I love the roman road but beyond that an infants need milk not solid food, they truly need to listen and learn from Jesus the author of our faith before going to Paul.


Warning Against Falling Away

11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

 

[Amy.G]

IOW, you're saying you're sorry, correct? If that's the case, I second that!! Sissy Amy IS sorry.....the "sorriest of the sorry's.....


*****ducking for cover as I type......

Oh, not calling me a dinosaur anymore? :laugh:

 

[DrJamesAch]

Sorry, but everything Pinoy said on this thread that prompted him to write this one, is a false gospel. Even the other Calvie's agreed with this.

It's pathetic that the racists (KY, SN) who oppose me at their every whim and caprice would so vehemently disagree and take sides against the gospel without thoroughly reading the other thread. What he said doesn't need an interpreter, and even Calvinists that argue regularly with us Non Calvinists noticed that he is preaching a blatantly false gospel.

 

[convicted1]

Oh, not calling me a dinosaur anymore? :laugh:

Okay......you're a sorry dinosaur.....the sorriest of the sorrys in regards to them.........to quote Barney Fife....."Put that in your smipe and poke it!!!"

 

[kyredneck]

...It's pathetic that the racists (KY, SN) who oppose me at their every whim and caprice would so vehemently disagree and take sides against the gospel without thoroughly reading the other thread. What he said doesn't need an interpreter, and even Calvinists that argue regularly with us Non Calvinists noticed that he is preaching a blatantly false gospel.

SN, how does it feel for YOU to be called a racist for a change? I'm used to it, I got a thick skin, doesn't bother me so much, just wonderin' what you think about it.

 

[convicted1]

SN, how does it feel for YOU to be called a racist for a change? I'm used to it, I got a thick skin, doesn't bother me so much, just wonderin' what you think about it.

Brother Larry, you're asking the wrong one. Brother SN doesn't think, he can't. Wasn't it Tolstoy who stated, "I think, therefore I am"? If that's the case, then Brother SN isn't, because he doesn't think....