Saved in a Calvinistic Church

[rockytopva]

I had a book ministry at work in which some guy, after reading one of the testimonial books, wanted to get saved but not in the Pentecostal Holiness church I am a member of. I had a friend I knew as Ray who was Baptist, so I took him to a Calvinistic Baptist church. Well, they had a Franklin Graham testimonial film that Sunday night and my friend goes up to get saved... Only... There is no altar! Some guy gets my friend and takes him to a Sunday School room (with me behind) and begins to talk all that doctrine.... Now get the picture... Here is a guy ready to receive Christ with tears running down his cheek and he is getting doctrinalized! I was thinking to myself for the crying out loud say the sinners prayer! Let him acknowledge Christ so he can go through to salvation! I then interrupted the man talking and said something to the effect, "lets go ahead and pray!"

Well, my friend ended up getting saved at a Calvinistic Baptist church. But.... No big deal for me, no regrets, and I would have done it again.

 

[AustinC]

I had a book ministry at work in which some guy, after reading one of the testimonial books, wanted to get saved but not in the Pentecostal Holiness church I am a member of. I had a friend I knew as Ray who was Baptist, so I took him to a Calvinistic Baptist church. Well, they had a Franklin Graham testimonial film that Sunday night and my friend goes up to get saved... Only... There is no altar! Some guy gets my friend and takes him to a Sunday School room (with me behind) and begins to talk all that doctrine.... Now get the picture... Here is a guy ready to receive Christ with tears running down his cheek and he is getting doctrinalized! I was thinking to myself for the crying out loud say the sinners prayer! Let him acknowledge Christ so he can go through to salvation! I then interrupted the man talking and said something to the effect, "lets go ahead and pray!"

Well, my friend ended up getting saved at a Calvinistic Baptist church. But.... No big deal for me, no regrets, and I would have done it again.

I once forbade a person from saying the sinners prayer.
He was racing at Daytona in Bike Week and both he and his girlfriend listened to me share the gospel. (I was going through the , "Four Spiritual Laws" pamphlet.) He and his girlfriend thought they might have better luck in the race if they said the prayer. I told him that God isn't a genie who grants you wishes and the sinners prayer is not a magic incantation that saves you from your sins.
Rocky, this was when I was still a free-will proponent who believed in saying the sinners prayer to get saved.

Having an emotional breakdown is not a requirement to salvation, nor does saying the sinners prayer automatically save you.

 

[rockytopva]

I am a child of the Methodist like revivals and received it Pentecostal Holiness like the Methodist before me. I plan on sharing this story with many this year, calling into remembrance the revivals of yore, and seeking to revive the spirit of the previous age. The Story of George Clark Rankin…. Here is a story about a man who never sensed the presence of Christ. When he came to faith in the old Methodist way (and the resulting revivals) it made a huge difference. At first, though, he was introduced to a denomination…

"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin (The Story of My Life – A Free EBook)

George Clark Rankin then moved to kind hearted kinsmen where religion came to life in the old Methodist way… In the course of an hour I was at my uncle's. He was surprised to see me, but gave me a cordial welcome. The first thing he did was to disarm me, and that ended my pistol-toting. I have never had one about my person or home to this good day. A good dinner refreshed me and I soon unfolded my plans and they were satisfactory to my kind-hearted kinsman. He was in the midst of cotton-picking and that afternoon I went to the field and, with a long sack about my waist, had my first experience in the cottonfield. We then would get ready for the revival occurring that night…

After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

 

[rockytopva]

As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:


"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures... I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.

 

[rockytopva]

Camp Meeting in Virginia! I passed my examinations and that year I was sent to the Wytheville Station and Circuit. That was adjoining my former charge. We reached the old parsonage on the pike just out of Wytheville as Rev. B. W. S. Bishop moved out. Charley Bishop was then a little tow-headed boy. He is now the learned Regent of Southwestern University. The parsonage was an old two-and-a-half-story structure with nine rooms and it looked a little like Hawthorne's house with the seven gables.
Think of taking a young bride to that sort of a mansion! But she was brave and showed no sign of disappointment. That first night we felt like two whortleberries in a Virginia tobacco wagonbed. But in a week or so we were invited out to spend the day with a good family, and when we went back and entered the bedroom was elegantly furnished with everything modern and the parlor was in fine shape. The ladies had been there and done the work. How much does the preacher owe to the good women of the Church! The circuit was a large one, comprising seventeen appointments. They were practically scattered all over the county. I preached every other day, and never less than twice and generally three times on Sunday.

The famous Cripple Creek Campground was on that work. They have kept up campmeetings there for more than a hundred years. It is still the great rallying point for the Methodists of all that section. I have never heard such singing and preaching and shouting anywhere else in my life. I met the Rev. John Boring there and heard him preach. He was a well-known preacher in the conference; original, peculiar, strikingly odd, but a great revival preacher.

One morning in the beginning of the service he was to preach and he called the people to prayer. He prayed loud and long and told the Lord just what sort of a meeting we were expecting and really exhorted the people as to their conduct on the grounds. Among other things, he said we wanted no horse- trading and then related that just before kneeling he had seen a man just outside the encampment looking into the mouth of a horse and he made such a peculiar sound as he described the incident that I lifted up my head to look at him, and he was holding his mouth open with his hands just as the man had done in looking into the horse's mouth! But he was a man of power and wrought well for the Church and for humanity.

The rarest character I ever met in my life I met at that campmeeting in the person of Rev. Robert Sheffy, known as "Bob" Sheffy. He was recognized all over Southwest Virginia as the most eccentric preacher of that country. He was a local preacher; crude, illiterate, queer and the oddest specimen known among preachers. But he was saintly in his life, devout in his experience and a man of unbounded faith. He wandered hither and thither over that section attending meetings, holding revivals and living among the people. He was great in prayer, and Cripple Creek campground was not complete without "Bob" Sheffy. They wanted him there to pray and work in the altar.
He was wonderful with penitents. And he was great in following up the sermon with his exhortations and appeals. He would sometimes spend nearly the whole night in the straw with mourners; and now and then if the meeting lagged he would go out on the mountain and spend the entire night in prayer, and the next morning he would come rushing into the service with his face all aglow shouting at the top of his voice. And then the meeting always broke loose with a floodtide.
He could say the oddest things, hold the most unique interviews with God, break forth in the most unexpected spasms of praise, use the homeliest illustrations, do the funniest things and go through with the most grotesque performances of any man born of woman.
It was just "Bob" Sheffy, and nobody thought anything of what he did and said, except to let him have his own way and do exactly as he pleased. In anybody else it would not have been tolerated for a moment. In fact, he acted more like a crazy man than otherwise, but he was wonderful in a meeting. He would stir the people, crowd the mourner's bench with crying penitents and have genuine conversions by the score. I doubt if any man in all that conference has as many souls to his credit in the Lamb's Book of Life as old "Bob" Sheffy.
At the close of that year in casting up my accounts I found that I had received three hundred and ninety dollars for my year's work, and the most of this had been contributed in everything except money. Well, we kept open house and had a royal time, even if we did not get much ready cash. We lived and had money enough to get a good suit of clothes and to pay our way to conference. What more does a young Methodist preacher need or want? We were satisfied and happy, and these experiences are not to be counted as unimportant assets in the life and work of a Methodist circuit rider. I have tried to capture these experiences for another generation at this web site – youtube.com/rockytopva. Thanks, and God’s blessings! -rockytopva

 

[rockytopva]

I have not heard from my Calvinistic brothers in decades and decided to check in on them.

https://fundamental.org/kjv-church-directory/4873/friendship-baptist-church-22/ Describes the church as....

Church Name: Friendship Baptist Church
Location: Virginia
Pastor's Name: Dr. Jon Thomas
Description: A Jesus Christ-Centered, Fundamental, KJB-Preaching, Soul-Winning, People-Loving, Old-Fashioned, Baptist Church that welcomes you and yours!
Website Address: http://friendshipbaptistriner.com
ZIP Code: 24149
Physical Address: 1708 Carriage Road, Riner, Virginia 24149, United States of America

No contacts on the Internet URL and the church looks like it has become an apartment complex. On further review it appears they had a disastrous change of pastors in 2006...

CHRISTIANSBURG — The long investigation into the finances of the now-defunct Friendship Baptist Church is looking into checks from the church’s bank account written to its former pastor. They total far more than his salary and other compensation, according to a search warrant filed last month in Montgomery County Circuit Court.

Jonathan B. Thomas, who toured in a Christian rock band before becoming Friendship Baptist’s pastor in 2006, guided the church through a move from Radford to Riner and also led the church into increasing debt.

He resigned in January 2016 after bank officials began asking about checks cashed from the church’s account, The Roanoke Times reported last year. Commonwealth’s Attorney Mary Pettitt said then that an anonymous letter, sent in March 2016 by a church member who questioned what happened to a $130,000 construction loan for a fellowship hall that was never built, had prompted her to ask the sheriff’s office to investigate.

No charges have been filed in connection with the church finances. Thomas did not respond to numerous requests for comment for last year’s story. Attempts to reach him Friday found only an old, disconnected phone number.

A search warrant filed last month by sheriff’s office investigator Steve McMillan gives a figure for how much Thomas is said to have taken from church accounts during a period between August 2013 and December 2015. Thomas’ salary, expenses, housing, insurance, and vehicle allowance totaled $107,590, the warrant explained. But checks written to Thomas during this period totaled $253,517.19.

“Thus the total overage amount for checks written to Jonathan Thomas during this time period is $145,927.19,” the warrant said.

Investigators are seeking records from Appalachian Power Company to see if Thomas was paying the church’s power bill through his personal account, according to the warrant. But McMillan already has been told by the church’s treasurer that Friendship Baptist’s account with APCo was “delinquent by several thousand dollars” as the church shut down in December 2015 and January 2016.

According to the warrant, Friendship Baptist Church trustees told investigators that they were concerned that Thomas “was using the money for himself and not for the interest of Friendship Baptist Church.” The warrant described how Thomas would bring several blank checks at a time to church trustees to sign. “When they asked Thomas what the checks were for, he would tell them utilities or something of the like,” the warrant said.

The amount of money going to Thomas rose gradually until 2015, when it jumped sharply, the warrant said. By the end of 2015, Friendship Baptist Church was out of money and behind on its mortgage and bills, the warrant said.The church defaulted on about $480,000 in loans, including the fellowship hall construction loan and a $335,000 mortgage that paid for the building in Riner that was Friendship Baptist’s last home. - Warrant says 'overage' in church checks to Riner pastor totaled $145,927

Well... One less Calvinistic Baptist church on the map! But I do grieve over the loss of the former quality Christian fellowship.

 

[AustinC]

I have not heard from my Calvinistic brothers in decades and decided to check in on them.

https://fundamental.org/kjv-church-directory/4873/friendship-baptist-church-22/ Describes the church as....

Church Name: Friendship Baptist Church
Location: Virginia
Pastor's Name: Dr. Jon Thomas
Description: A Jesus Christ-Centered, Fundamental, KJB-Preaching, Soul-Winning, People-Loving, Old-Fashioned, Baptist Church that welcomes you and yours!
Website Address: http://friendshipbaptistriner.com
ZIP Code: 24149
Physical Address: 1708 Carriage Road, Riner, Virginia 24149, United States of America

No contacts on the Internet URL and the church looks like it has become an apartment complex. On further review it appears they had a disastrous change of pastors in 2006...

CHRISTIANSBURG — The long investigation into the finances of the now-defunct Friendship Baptist Church is looking into checks from the church’s bank account written to its former pastor. They total far more than his salary and other compensation, according to a search warrant filed last month in Montgomery County Circuit Court.

Jonathan B. Thomas, who toured in a Christian rock band before becoming Friendship Baptist’s pastor in 2006, guided the church through a move from Radford to Riner and also led the church into increasing debt.

He resigned in January 2016 after bank officials began asking about checks cashed from the church’s account, The Roanoke Times reported last year. Commonwealth’s Attorney Mary Pettitt said then that an anonymous letter, sent in March 2016 by a church member who questioned what happened to a $130,000 construction loan for a fellowship hall that was never built, had prompted her to ask the sheriff’s office to investigate.

No charges have been filed in connection with the church finances. Thomas did not respond to numerous requests for comment for last year’s story. Attempts to reach him Friday found only an old, disconnected phone number.

A search warrant filed last month by sheriff’s office investigator Steve McMillan gives a figure for how much Thomas is said to have taken from church accounts during a period between August 2013 and December 2015. Thomas’ salary, expenses, housing, insurance, and vehicle allowance totaled $107,590, the warrant explained. But checks written to Thomas during this period totaled $253,517.19.

“Thus the total overage amount for checks written to Jonathan Thomas during this time period is $145,927.19,” the warrant said.

Investigators are seeking records from Appalachian Power Company to see if Thomas was paying the church’s power bill through his personal account, according to the warrant. But McMillan already has been told by the church’s treasurer that Friendship Baptist’s account with APCo was “delinquent by several thousand dollars” as the church shut down in December 2015 and January 2016.

According to the warrant, Friendship Baptist Church trustees told investigators that they were concerned that Thomas “was using the money for himself and not for the interest of Friendship Baptist Church.” The warrant described how Thomas would bring several blank checks at a time to church trustees to sign. “When they asked Thomas what the checks were for, he would tell them utilities or something of the like,” the warrant said.

The amount of money going to Thomas rose gradually until 2015, when it jumped sharply, the warrant said. By the end of 2015, Friendship Baptist Church was out of money and behind on its mortgage and bills, the warrant said.The church defaulted on about $480,000 in loans, including the fellowship hall construction loan and a $335,000 mortgage that paid for the building in Riner that was Friendship Baptist’s last home. - Warrant says 'overage' in church checks to Riner pastor totaled $145,927

Well... One less Calvinistic Baptist church on the map! But I do grieve over the loss of the former quality Christian fellowship.

Huh, yet pentacostal name it and claim it hucksters who steal millions from the poor with their deception go unspoken by you.
But, back to this church. When you see KJV only, you see a graceless church bent on legalism, which means it is far away from Reformed faith. Moreso, your presentation shows that the church was held together by flesh, not Spirit, much like many pentacostal churches who preach experience over God's Word.
So, it seems you pick some bad churches to attend and you don't even recognize how bad they are.
I would invite you to a truly Reformed Baptist Church if you ever wished to attend.

 

[rockytopva]

Huh, yet pentacostal name it and claim it hucksters who steal millions from the poor with their deception go unspoken by you.
But, back to this church. When you see KJV only, you see a graceless church bent on legalism, which means it is far away from Reformed faith. Moreso, your presentation shows that the church was held together by flesh, not Spirit, much like many pentacostal churches who preach experience over God's Word.
So, it seems you pick some bad churches to attend and you don't even recognize how bad they are.
I would invite you to a truly Reformed Baptist Church if you ever wished to attend.

I believe the congregations of Christianity as seven and outlined in the first few chapters of Revelation...

1. Messianic
2. Martyr
3. Orthodox
4. Catholic
5. Protestant
6. Revived
7. Materialistic

In which in this Laodicean day and time you has better research your decisions on senior pastor! Any of these congregations can go out of the Spirit and into the flesh and experience disastrous results!

 

[AustinC]

I know what you believe. I just wish you believed what the Bible teaches instead of some fable concocted in the late 1800s somewhere in the Appalachian hill country.

Your so mixed up on this that you struggle to discern any doctrine in the Bible. Could you ever defend yourself with scripture alone?

 

[rockytopva]

I know what you believe. I just wish you believed what the Bible teaches instead of some fable concocted in the late 1800s somewhere in the Appalachian hill country.

Your so mixed up on this that you struggle to discern any doctrine in the Bible. Could you ever defend yourself with scripture alone?

I believe Pentecostal Holiness originated in Greenville South Carolina before turning into the IPHC...

ABOUT | Holmes Bible College

Wonderful roots! Wonderful people!

 

[AustinC]

I believe Pentecostal Holiness originated in Greenville South Carolina before turning into the IPHC...

ABOUT | Holmes Bible College

Wonderful roots! Wonderful people!

...and zero scripture from you.
No Word of God, just your claimed experience.

 

[rockytopva]

...and zero scripture from you.
No Word of God, just your claimed experience.

How about… Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

 

[AustinC]

How about… Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

I don't forbid God from gifting his people to speak in tongues. I call on persons to accurately interpret in the church. If no one can understand the tongue being used, then you need to keep your mouth shut in the church.
*1 Corinthians 14:1-19*

Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church. Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

rocky, you are wanting to emulate a church full of selfish babies in Corinth. Why? Why do you want to be empty of solid food and just drink milk your entire life?

 

[rockytopva]

I don't forbid God from gifting his people to speak in tongues. I call on persons to accurately interpret in the church. If no one can understand the tongue being used, then you need to keep your mouth shut in the church.
*1 Corinthians 14:1-19*

Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church. Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

rocky, you are wanting to emulate a church full of selfish babies in Corinth. Why? Why do you want to be empty of solid food and just drink milk your entire life?

And... The Lord Jesus blows me away by saying...

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. - 2 Corinthians 12:9

 

[AustinC]

And... The Lord Jesus blows me away by saying...

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. - 2 Corinthians 12:9

Amen to that verse.
What's the context?

 

[rockytopva]

Amen to that verse.
What's the context?

Tongues... I personally believe that tongues is a poor evidence of having received anything at all from God. The Ordinances of the Azusa Street Mission were Basically Seven….

Justification by faith – We are saved, or justified, by simple faith in Christ.
Sanctification by faith - As a second definite work of grace upon the heart and evidenced by the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience!
Power - The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a gift of power upon the sanctified life, anointing it in service and in work, with the speaking in tongues as one of the ‘signs following’ in the baptized believer along with casting out devils, healing the sick and the fruits of the Spirit accompanying the signs.
Marriage – As a holy union between a man and a woman.
Water Baptism – On those who have reached the age of accountability
Communion - “We believe in the ordinance of the Lord’s supper as instituted by Jesus and followed by the apostles, and teach that it should be frequently observed in holy reverence.”
Foot Washing - “We believe in feet washing as an ordinance, as it was established by our Master before the Lord’s supper, according to John 13:4-18, and believe it was practiced by the Apostles and disciples through the First Century” (1 Tim. 5:10).

The Methods to the Fullness of the Spirit of God were Basically Seven....

1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

And in William Seymours own handwriting...

As far as tongues William Seymour says that if people weren’t expressing the I Corinthians 13 kind of love, then, “I care not how many tongues you may have, you have not the baptism with the Holy Spirit.” William Seymour also warned that, “Whenever the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Ghost will only be known as the evidence of speaking in tongues, that work will be an open door for witches and spiritualist and free loveism. That work will suffer because all kinds of spirits can come in.”

The ultimate end of our experience is that we have Christ formed on the inside, which seems better inside the meek and quiet spirit...

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, - Galatians 4:19
For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. - Isaiah 66:2

In which is why I have liked and included the GC Rankin story in this thread as he would also pick up his doctorate in divinity as well as experience as a circuit rider. - George Clark Rankin. The Story of My Life Or More Than a Half Century As I Have Lived It and Seen It Lived Written by Myself at My Own Suggestion and That of Many Others Who Have Known and Loved Me

It is too bad I can't recommend any kind of denomination as so few retain the weakness spiritually with their advancements into the weightier things of Christianity.

 

[rockytopva]

How I experienced these things Baptist...

The Methods to the Fullness of the Spirit of God were Basically Seven....
1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

I was born in Camp Lejeune NC and spent part of the 1970's in Michigan. When we moved there my dad bought me a motorcycle and I would spend my weekends trailblazing the countryside. One Sunday morning I was riding up the hill and turned around to almost run into a church bus. The bus doors open and out pops the head of a Mr Moxely who told me I needed to be in church. To make a long story short the whole family ended up getting saved, the church expands, and attendance skyrockets from 80 to over 400.

After a year of public schools I would end up listening to the music of the time and would lose that clean sanctified feeling. The youth ministry on occasion would take us up to northern Michigan to the GARBC (Baptist) youth retreats. I remember in a wide open country setting we would hear a message, feel a conviction, and then go up to the altar for prayer. I would return home feeling very clean and refreshed. Like a fresh born again experience and feel very close to Christ and the heavenly. As a young adult I began attending Pentecostal Holiness and my pastor was good at finding evangelist who would preach a good message convicting the heart and inspiring a trip to the altar for prayer. Same experiences.... Different denominations. Which is no big deal with me as long as Christ is indeed in the experience.

 

[AustinC]

Honestly, experiences can be wicked and deceptive tools of the devil. How can we discern them?

Answer: God's Holy Word. This is why we study to show ourselves approved. God's word is true and every man a liar.

rocky, unless you can present truth from scripture alone and discern your experience only from scripture, you may be following evil and not even know it.

It is time for you to put away childish things and move to maturity by immersing yourself in God's Word, not personal experience.

 

[rockytopva]

Honestly, experiences can be wicked and deceptive tools of the devil. How can we discern them?

Answer: God's Holy Word. This is why we study to show ourselves approved. God's word is true and every man a liar.

rocky, unless you can present truth from scripture alone and discern your experience only from scripture, you may be following evil and not even know it.

It is time for you to put away childish things and move to maturity by immersing yourself in God's Word, not personal experience.

The fruit of the Spirit is obtained via experience!

Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest. Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field. - Isaiah 32:15-16

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23

I would love to go back in time, sitting among the fruited fields, sitting among the wonderfully sanctified, and absorbing all the wonderful energy as the Holy Spirit was poured upon us from on high! The Pharisees and Saducees (noting sad-you-see) were astute in the Word of God yet God says to many on that level...

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. - Matthew 15:7-9

 

[AustinC]

The fruit of the Spirit is obtained via experience!

No! Utterly Wrong!
The fruit is...wait for it...of...the...Spirit.
It's not fruit of the experience. Experience does not provide these flavor, found in the fruit. These flavors are: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. None of these are caused by experience. They are all caused by God alone so that in the most horrible experience they will still abound.

Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest. Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field. - Isaiah 32:15-16

Beautiful verse. What is the context?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23

Beautiful verse. Where is experience stated?

I would love to go back in time, sitting among the fruited fields, sitting among the wonderfully sanctified, and absorbing all the wonderful energy as the Holy Spirit was poured upon us from on high! The Pharisees and Saducees (noting sad-you-see) were astute in the Word of God yet God says to many on that level...

God placed you in the here and now. The past is gone, never to return, and the future is only known by God. It is in the now where heaven and earth meet in a real, tangible way. Go read your Bible right now.

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. - Matthew 15:7-9

Great verse. What is the context?