Saved in childbearing... from what?

[James_Newman]

There are a number of interpretations. Here's the right one:

The context is teaching in the church, from which women are forbidden but rather are to keep silence. Which would raise the question, If women can't teach, then how can they contribute to the sin problem they helped to caused through being deceived? By bearing children and raising them in a godly way.

So being saved means getting to help with the sin problem? Thats a novel interpretation.

 

[TCGreek]

There is nothing unusual about Acts 16. [/QUOTE

1. Once more, "you will be saved" is applied to both the jailer and his household. Jailer and household are plural, expecting a plural verb, but the verb is singular.

2. "Afther this, Jesus and his disciples went out..." "Went out" is a singular verb but it is applied to Jesus and his disciples, where we should have expected a plural verb.

Thats a cop out, but lets just say that the one who is to continue is the woman. Does it really change anything? We have a conditional works based salvation in this scripture, and that is the real issue.

3. As I stated before, I only appeal to the Greek when it is necessary. You can read all my posts.

 

[James_Newman]

1. You have made your point. Forgiving me for not taken into account the incorrect nature of "Let him or her know that they must return the books they borrowed."

2. Maybe I was wrong for using this faulty example. At any rate, the verdict is still out on this structure.

I found this interesting tidbit and thought you might find it humorous as I did

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003485.html

So I will concede that this verse is certainly a strange one to decipher.

 

[James_Newman]

I'd like to focus on the 'saved' part. I'll have to wait till tomorrow afternoon, though as I'm leaving for the day. Goodnight brothers.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I gotta question!!!!

does the word 'saved' in this passage have to mean or refer to the salvation of a woman's soul?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Where does the Bible say that women can't teach?
I have pastored for many years and have yet to find a church that does not use women to teach women's classes and children's classes.

It would help if you would read the context rather than make smart aleck remarks. I think when I said to look at the context that should have been the key to you to look at the context. If you have pastored for many years, then you know exactly what I was saying and it seems disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

 

[DHK]

I gotta question!!!!

does the word 'saved' in this passage have to mean or refer to the salvation of a woman's soul?

In a word, No.

 

[Pastor Larry]

So being saved means getting to help with the sin problem? Thats a novel interpretation.

That would be a novel interpretation. It is not mine however, as you can tell from reading what I actually said.

Study the passage rather than just spout off. Some interpretive keys are whether the salvation is spiritual or physical, what does the childbearing refer to (physical childbirth, general childbirth, the Messiah, etc.). One must answer all these questions before you can talk about novel interpretations.

Here's my view: Women were attempting to have spiritual influence over men through teaching and having authority in the church and in spiritual matters. Paul is teaching that that is not their salvation; their salvation (meaning something like their spiritual ministry or working out their own salvation) is through their ministry in the home.

Pick it apart if you wish, but at least deal with what I said.

 

[DHK]

1 Timothy 2:14-15 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Paul is referring back to the curse that was put on Adam and Eve back in the Garden of Eden. Adam was not deceived. Eve was. Genesis 3:16 gives the consequence of Eve's sin--God would greatly multiply her sorrow and her conception; in sorrow she would bring forth children. Later Jesus mentioned how a woman brought forth a child in travail (or pain).

The "saved" is physical. Though the curse is in place, that the woman would give birth in sorrow; in pain, she would not die. She would be saved giving birth.

1 Timothy 2:15 and she shall be saved through the child-bearing, if they remain in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.

The pronoun is plural referring to the entire female gender--all women.
As elsewhere it is a passage that refers to the duties of a woman in the home.

 

[Accountable]

It would help if you would read the context rather than make smart aleck remarks. I think when I said to look at the context that should have been the key to you to look at the context. If you have pastored for many years, then you know exactly what I was saying and it seems disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

I guess I'm just dumb. Where is the smart aleck remarks?

You made a statement, of which I have read again, and I still would like to know the answer.

 

[Accountable]

The "saved" is physical. Though the curse is in place, that the woman would give birth in sorrow; in pain, she would not die. She would be saved giving birth.

1 Timothy 2:15 and she shall be saved through the child-bearing, if they remain in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.

The pronoun is plural referring to the entire female gender--all women.
As elsewhere it is a passage that refers to the duties of a woman in the home.

If, If, If,........... So what about the ones who do not remain in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety?

 

[DHK]

If, If, If,........... So what about the ones who do not remain in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety?

It is a general guideline for righteous living. Think about it. What happens when one doesn't live "with sobriety" (soundness of mind).
If a woman lives a "loose life," drinks, and is immoral, she will do great harm not only to her unborn child but also to herself. And in Paul's day they didn't have the medical facilities that we do. The mortality rate was high for both children and mothers in that day. Even in third world countires today children that are born to Godly families have a better chance of survival, as do their mothers.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I guess I'm just dumb. Where is the smart aleck remarks?

You made a statement, of which I have read again, and I still would like to know the answer.

You said, "I have pastored for many years and have yet to find a church that does not use women to teach women's classes and children's classes." No one ever suggested such a thing.

 

[Accountable]

It is a general guideline for righteous living. Think about it. What happens when one doesn't live "with sobriety" (soundness of mind).
If a woman lives a "loose life," drinks, and is immoral, she will do great harm not only to her unborn child but also to herself. And in Paul's day they didn't have the medical facilities that we do. The mortality rate was high for both children and mothers in that day. Even in third world countires today children that are born to Godly families have a better chance of survival, as do their mothers.

You left out the IF for faith, love, and sanctification. It's not all sobriety.

I did not know about the 3rd world statistics. Where can I find this? I have a file where I keep some statistics.

 

[lbaker]

It is a general guideline for righteous living.

Sort of the same general idea as:

Exodus 20:12
"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

Except that the emphasis was on duty to a parent rather than duty to a child.

I don't think this would mean that nobody ever died young that honored their parents, or that there were never any old geezers around that hadn't treated their parents honorably. But, as a general rule if you respect your folks you are more likely to hang around for awhile.

 

[DHK]

Sort of the same general idea as:

Exodus 20:12
"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

Except that the emphasis was on duty to a parent rather than duty to a child.

I don't think this would mean that nobody ever died young that honored their parents, or that there were never any old geezers around that hadn't treated their parents honorably. But, as a general rule if you respect your folks you are more likely to hang around for awhile.

Yes, that is a very good example of what I am trying to say.

 

[Accountable]

Yes, that is a very good example of what I am trying to say.

Still looking for reply on the IF of faith, love, and sanctification.

 

[DHK]

Still looking for reply on the IF of faith, love, and sanctification.

As Ibaker pointed out, it is a general rule to follow.
If there is faith, love and holiness (sanctification) in the family, there is a much greater chance of both child and mother to be saved in child birth.

 

[Accountable]

As Ibaker pointed out, it is a general rule to follow.
If there is faith, love and holiness (sanctification) in the family, there is a much greater chance of both child and mother to be saved in child birth.

The Bible doesn't say she has a much greater chance to be saved, it says she shall be saved.

Do we change the Bible, or do we change our thoughts?

 

[James_Newman]

The Bible doesn't say she has a much greater chance to be saved, it says she shall be saved.

Do we change the Bible, or do we change our thoughts?

Believe on the Lord and you have a greater chance to be saved... I think these folks do believe that is what the bible says.