Saved, Lost, Saved Again.

[Claudia_T]

Mt:5:13: Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.


salt can lose its savor and is then "good for nothing"

"ye are the salt of the earth" referring to the believer...

 

[Claudia_T]

steaver,

This is all over the Bible! I dont see how anybody could miss it, over and over again the Bible says we can be saved then lost.

I never could understand how anybody could even have any question about that.


Claudia

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:
steaver,

This is all over the Bible! I dont see how anybody could miss it, over and over again the Bible says we can be saved then lost.

I never could understand how anybody could even have any question about that.


Claudia

I could have used you about 9 pages back

so thanx for your input - excellent

 

[steaver]

elo...

I could have used you about 9 pages back

so thanx for your input - excellent

Excellent

Claudia is not on your side concerning the title of this thread. She believes the exact opposite as you concerning "saved, lost, saved again". I think you two ought to work this out if you are going to claim you are both on the same side of this topic.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

NO I wont give a testimony about it because I dont like praising the devil and reveling in the past.

But yes, I had wandered far away from God, thats why in the parable of the prodigal son it says "For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry." Lk:15:24:

When you're in the pig pen you arent at the Father's house. You are DEAD, you are LOST.

Recall that the son had taken his father's inheritance and went off to go do some riotous living:

Luke 15:
12: And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13: And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

He had once been a son at the Father's house, meaning he was saved... then LOST... then came back and was "found".

Thats enough of a testimony.

But I am all too well aware of the times when I have gone away from God and I full well know I was not in a "saved" condition at all.


Claudia

This is indeed interesting. How would you interpret Hebrews 6 in light of your understanding of the prodigal son?

Hbr 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

elo...

That you repented was the grace of God, and only His grace.

Correct. Then God has preserved me..."only His Grace".

God Bless!

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by steaver:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />elo...

I could have used you about 9 pages back

so thanx for your input - excellent

Excellent

Claudia is not on your side concerning the title of this thread. She believes the exact opposite as you concerning "saved, lost, saved again". I think you two ought to work this out if you are going to claim you are both on the same side of this topic.

God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]I have maintained that you can lose your salvation - which is exactly what Claudia proved by scripture and very well

 

[standingfirminChrist]

no one has proved that one can lose their salvation. "All that has been done is ignoring the scripture that proves eternal means eternal"

 

[steaver]

elo...

I have maintained that you can lose your salvation - which is exactly what Claudia proved by scripture and very well

Actually in this overall conversation you, in heart, have maintained that one CANNOT lose their salvation by repeatedly falling back on..."it is all God's Grace". This is OSAS!

On the otherhand you wrestle with scriptures that upset your intellect. Scripture can look mighty confusing unless one calls on God for wisdom and carefully and rightly divides the word of truth...I've been there!

You have it right in your heart...All God's Grace...now you just need to rightly interpret those passages wich are upseting to your mind.

Now Claudia has not "proved" anything by quoting some scripture and thinking it means something other than what it really does. In fact she has directly contradicted your view about "saved, lost, saved again". Further her post about the prodigal son is in direct contradiction with your view, and I am sure hers too, in Hebrews 6 which is one of the "you can lose your salvation" camps crown jewel, so to speak.

Why don't you address this with cluadia and see if you can clear things up about the prodigal son with her? You know the truth...All God's Grace!

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

But I am all too well aware of the times when I have gone away from God and I full well know I was not in a "saved" condition at all.


Claudia

Cluadia, you maintain you have been saved, then lost, then saved again. What I need to know then is how does this coinside with Hebrews 6 for you? Are you saying that Hebrews 6 is NOT saying it is impossible to renew one to repentance? Does it mean something else? Let me know. Thank you!

God Bless!

 

[eloidalmanutha]

posted by steaver:
This is indeed interesting. How would you interpret Hebrews 6 in light of your understanding of the prodigal son?

Hbr 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

God Bless! [/QB]

backsliding and loss of salvation are two different things. I still maintain that loss of salvation is possible, based on Gal 5 as one example.

I have been thinking about this script in relation to loss of salvation, because it says distinctly "falling away" - to me that is a denial of the salvation work in Christ - probably inclusive of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

If you look at the other verses that speak of falling away, it appears to be a specific group of people who have once believed and embraced Christ, had the indwelt Spirit and then rejected Him as God and Messiah or have believed a different gospel being led astray be seducing spirits - which Jesus referred to in the parable of The Sower.

When you were off doing your own thing, did you reject Jesus as God, thinking in your mind that He is not the Messiah and that God is a myth? Or were you in rebellion - which could also have could have caused spiritual death at some point? only God knows.

I knew a guy who was sold out to Jesus, he loved the Word of God and was a brilliant man who understood godliness and holiness. He fell away. He rejected that God exists. He rejects that Jesus is Lord, that He is not the Messiah, that there is no such thing. That man does not sin. He says the Bible is nothing but fairy tales. He believes in reincarnation, that we come back multiple times to improve our spirits. His words against God are blasphemy and he now worships Tao and the god of self. That is an example of falling away.

 

[Tazman]

I believe Heb 6 is valid with respect to people who fall away.

Heb 10 "if we deliberately keep on sinning after knowledge of the truth NO SACRIFICE for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation that will consume the enemies of God."

I believe one can forfit their salvation by:

1. continuing to sin (knowingly) against God. The point is if they know what's right but does not fear God, then they are worse off.

2. Believing an additional Gospel other than what the Apostles taught

3. That God can reject us due to our eventual unbelief


I bleive It is often imposible for people to come back because they either continue in their unbelief and/or they have already tasted the goodness of Christ but Desired pleasures of the world more. Sometimes people stop caring.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by Tazman:
I believe Heb 6 is valid with respect to people who fall away.

Heb 10 "if we deliberately keep on sinning after knowledge of the truth NO SACRIFICE for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation that will consume the enemies of God."

I believe one can forfit their salvation by:

1. continuing to sin (knowingly) against God. The point is if they know what's right but does not fear God, then they are worse off.

2. Believing an additional Gospel other than what the Apostles taught

3. That God can reject us due to our eventual unbelief


I bleive It is often imposible for people to come back because they either continue in their unbelief and/or they have already tasted the goodness of Christ but Desired pleasures of the world more. Sometimes people stop caring.

good point - which is what Jesus said:

Luke 8:13 And those on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the Word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a time, and in time of trial draw back.
14 And those falling in the thorn bushes, these are those hearing, but under cares and riches and pleasures of life, moving along, they are choked, and do not bear to maturity.

 

[steaver]

elo...

When you were off doing your own thing, did you reject Jesus as God, thinking in your mind that He is not the Messiah and that God is a myth?

No, I did not reject Jesus as God in my mind or heart. Yes, I was in rebellion. Some who teach that one can lose their salvation teach that my sinful condition for those ten years means I was lost for those ten years. Some of those are right here posting on these boards. They will declare that wilful sinning equals no salvation.

I found out later when i repented that the reason I never stopped believing in Jesus Christ was because I had been born of God when I was ten. I could not stop believing because I was regenerated at ten and given the Holy Spirit rebirth. Two became one and a new creature was born of God.
As a new creature having a quickened spirit joined with the Spirit of Christ there was no way I could ever change how I believed about myself.
The Holy Spirit is eternally joined within me and I cannot be somebody I am not or once was prior to this event. God keeps me and is the Author and Finisher of my faith in Christ.
No one can change who they were born to be in the flesh or in the spirit.
I eternally belong to God as a child of God even when in a state of temporary earthly shame. God will finish the good works He begins in every new child He creates.

elo...

I knew a guy who was sold out to Jesus, he loved the Word of God and was a brilliant man who understood godliness and holiness. He fell away. He rejected that God exists. He rejects that Jesus is Lord, that He is not the Messiah, that there is no such thing. That man does not sin. He says the Bible is nothing but fairy tales. He believes in reincarnation, that we come back multiple times to improve our spirits. His words against God are blasphemy and he now worships Tao and the god of self. That is an example of falling away.

I see an example of a religious man who never received the Spirit of Christ. There are thousands of these sitting in churches across America and the World.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Tazman...

I believe one can forfit their salvation by:

1. continuing to sin (knowingly) against God. The point is if they know what's right but does not fear God, then they are worse off.

I bleive It is often imposible for people to come back because they either continue in their unbelief and/or they have already tasted the goodness of Christ but Desired pleasures of the world more. Sometimes people stop caring.

Hi Tazman, you have just described myself! Read my testimony back on page two. I sinned wilfully (knowingly) and I stopped caring about the things of God. I desired the pleasures of this world and wallowed in them for ten years!
Was I saved, then lost, now saved again? Doesn't Hebrews say this is impossible?

Hey, how about your testimony? Have you ever been lost after your regeneration? I still cannot find anyone who has.

God Bless!

 

[Tazman]

Originally posted by steaver:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Tazman...

I believe one can forfit their salvation by:

1. continuing to sin (knowingly) against God. The point is if they know what's right but does not fear God, then they are worse off.

I bleive It is often imposible for people to come back because they either continue in their unbelief and/or they have already tasted the goodness of Christ but Desired pleasures of the world more. Sometimes people stop caring.

Hi Tazman, you have just described myself! Read my testimony back on page two. I sinned wilfully (knowingly) and I stopped caring about the things of God. I desired the pleasures of this world and wallowed in them for ten years!
Was I saved, then lost, now saved again? Doesn't Hebrews say this is impossible?

Hey, how about your testimony? Have you ever been lost after your regeneration? I still cannot find anyone who has.

God Bless!

</font>[/QUOTE]Romans 11:23
And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

During that time you very well could have not been a part of the branch and if that were the case, I believe if the jews could be grafted in, it would seem feasable for us as well.

John 15:5
"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.



The truth of the matter is that no matter what you believe before hand your faith was not perservering during your friendship with the world (James 4:4) if Jesus would have came back like a theif in the night or you would have died where you were then you would have to judge for yourself of where you stood with him. But from the sounds of it, it didn't sound good.

Have I ever left God? No, but I had issues with Him on some things that took place in my life. But ever since He came into my life and I made him Lord and the world became less appealing every year. I have had my struggles and oppertunities to go back, but I didn't.

John 15:6
If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.



And NO I am not talking Perfection, but a lifestyle change and heart change.

I am sorry to hear you had that point in your life, but hopefully you have a testamony to encourage others not to go there.

But that testamony may not mean much if people think it doesn't matter to God where they are when he comes back or they die and that they should not be on their guard and no matter what they do God is okay with it. He WILL NOT be mocked.

Maybe if you had been warned that falling away is possible and what it's implications are then It may have given you the extra (righteous) encouragement you needed to heed Gods calling.

Romans 11:11
[ Ingrafted Branches ] Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. (Taz:to come back to God)

Hindsight is 20/20, so please forgive me if I offended you, I'm not trying to make light of your situation, I'm just only sharing with you what was shared with me to keep me going.

In Christ,
Stefon

[ March 08, 2006, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Tazman ]

 

[steaver]

Tazman...


Romans 11:23
And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

During that time you very well could have not been a part of the branch and if that were the case, I believe if the jews could be grafted in, it would seem feasable for us as well.

The truth of the matter is that no matter what you believe before hand your faith was not perservering during your friendship with the world (James 4:4) if Jesus would have came back like a theif in the night or you would have died where you were then you would have to judge for yourself of where you stood. But from the sounds of it, it doesn't sound good.

Interesting analogy, however, it would go against your take on Hebrews 6, would it not?

Have I ever left God? No, but I had issues with him on some things that took place. But ever since He came into my life and I made him Lord I the world becomes less appealing every year. I have had my struggles and opertunities to go back, but I didn't.

And NO I am not talking Perfection, but a lifestyle change and heart change.

I am sorry to hear you had that point in your life, but hopefully you have a testamony to encourage others not to go there.

Thank you, and I have helped others with my testimony.

Glad to hear you are staying close to Christ.

But that testamony may not mean much if people think it doesn't matter to God where they are when he comes back or they die and that they should not be on their guard and no matter what they do God is okay with it. He WILL NOT be mocked.

Maybe if you had been warned that falling away is possible and what it's implications are then It may have gave you the extra (righteous) push you need to heed Gods calling.

This may be true but is it right to make a child stay in line by threatening them with hellfire even though they trust in Jesus?

I think I would have faired better if someone would have taught me who I was in Christ. I was never discipled by anyone. I had only the Holy Spirit to guide me and He did very well. However, it was I who chose to resist Him and cross the line(thirtteen years later). I clearly remember Him tearing at my very soul trying to get me to stay close, but I said no and stepped out of line. From there He watched as I slid farther and farther away. He still torn at me in the beginning but eventually I didn't even hear Him much anymore. One day I was at the end of it and cried out to God for Him to intervene. Within two weeks He saved my boy and wife and sent two brothers in Christ to my door. Ten years He watched His child waste his life. But He knew my end would come and I would repent of my sins. Afterall, He did predestinate me before the foundation of the world to be conformed to the image of His Son! Praise Him!

God Bless!

 

[Tazman]

Stever,

You are a character

Take care

 

[steaver]

So far no personal testimonies from believers who have experienced this doctrine of saved, lost, saved again. How do folks teach doctrines which they cannot personally apply to their own lives? I can give testimony about being OSAS. Saved then lost is just a theory rather than a proven fact. I guess it could not be proven until death and then there wouldn't be anyway of giving testimonial facts to the living. Oh well.

God Bless!

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by steaver:
So far no personal testimonies from believers who have experienced this doctrine of saved, lost, saved again. How do folks teach doctrines which they cannot personally apply to their own lives? I can give testimony about being OSAS. Saved then lost is just a theory rather than a proven fact. I guess it could not be proven until death and then there wouldn't be anyway of giving testimonial facts to the living. Oh well.

God Bless!

back to the OP, huh? well, after pages and pages of discussion, it seems we are both pretty settled in our perspective. But I am curious how you expect a person who has been saved and lost to be on a christian forum and actually admit to being lost. When one loses salvation, they could care less about God, other than to rant against Him. Not sure where this "testimony" is supposed to come from? Maybe you could give me a hint

I do not believe in being saved, lost, and saved again. Lost to me is turning your back on Christ and denying Him as Messiah - this is what I believe Heb 6 is referring to. More than likely this falls into the realm of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - which is the unforgiveable sin. Just my opinion, of course