Saved souls

The question I have is when we get saved is it our soul or our person that gets saved?

To save a soul implies that the soul was lost and to save is sinner implies that the sinner was lost.

Is it our soul that commits sin against the will of the person or does the person commit sin against the will of the soul?

Are the person and the soul the same? Then how can we have a soul if we are our soul?

I'm lost, please help me.

Gloria

 

The question I have is when we get saved is it our soul or our person that gets saved?

Our body is the jar in which our soul(true self) resides. Because our perception of reality is bent by our imperfect perceptions and limited understanding, our view of reality is imperfect.

Is it our soul that commits sin against the will of the person or does the person commit sin against the will of the soul?

Paul goes answers this question in Romans. He said that once we accept Christ as our savior, the sin we commit is due to the weakness of our flesh. It can be either way. It could be our flesh causing the sin or our soul, depending on the state of heart. Since it is impossible for us to judge our own heart, only God knows for sure.

In any case, as long as we are in this world, we will sin. It is by the Grace of God that we are saved.

Are the person and the soul the same?

No, the body is the clay vessel in which our soul resides


To save a soul implies that the soul was lost and to save is sinner implies that the sinner was lost.

The sinner is the name we give to the vessel in which the lost soul resides.

We are not actually saved until judgement is given. Until then we can only be on the road to salvation.

 

Hi Gloria,
How are you doing?

A living human person is made up of a body and a soul. Without his body, the soul is no longer a human person, but is rather a bodyless spirit. That's what death is: the separation of body and soul. And those people won't be human beings again until the resurrection when body and soul are reunited. Does this clarify things?

Pauline

 

Lorelei,
Neither does that passage say that gladly receiving his word saved them.

What saves people is God's life within them because He is life and holiness. And God gives that share in His life at baptism.

Pauline

 

Tuor,
The bible says that God created man body and soul. That is what makes up a man. To say that the soul is the complete person doesn't fit. Why then did God give us bodies? Why will He resurrect the body? Why not just leave us spirits in heaven? And why did Jesus Christ take to himself a body? And why did He resurrect His body? Because a body is part of a full human being. We wouldn't be fully ourselves without our bodies.

Pauline

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tuor:
The question I have is when we get saved is it our soul or our person that gets saved?

Our body is the jar in which our soul(true self) resides. Because our perception of reality is bent by our imperfect perceptions and limited understanding, our view of reality is imperfect.

But our persona is not our body and if our soul is our "true self" then who is our "person" (from persona)?

Is it our soul that commits sin against the will of the person or does the person commit sin against the will of the soul?

Paul goes answers this question in Romans. He said that once we accept Christ as our savior, the sin we commit is due to the weakness of our flesh. It can be either way. It could be our flesh causing the sin or our soul, depending on the state of heart. Since it is impossible for us to judge our own heart, only God knows for sure.

But our flesh does not have a will to be weak. We have either our persona to blame or our soul. If our person is lost our soul is not and if our soul is lost our peseon is not. If both are lost redemption is not possible.

Next, you bring in the "state of our heart." Is this yet another entity that impedes on our volition? Is there now three of us?

In any case, as long as we are in this world, we will sin. It is by the Grace of God that we are saved.

Gal.5:1-4. It was for liberty that Christ freed us from the yoke of slavery and we are not to take upon us this yoke for a second time. . . . if we seek justification in the law after we have been set free we will have fallen from Gods favor (v.4).

Are the person and the soul the same?

No, the body is the clay vessel in which our soul resides

Notice the duality in "our soul" as if we are not the same as, or one with, our soul.

To save a soul implies that the soul was lost and to save is sinner implies that the sinner was lost.

The sinner is the name we give to the vessel in which the lost soul resides.

The vessel is the body of the being and cannot be lost or found, or good or bad in itself.

We are not actually saved until judgement is given. Until then we can only be on the road to salvation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean with one foot in heaven and one foot on earth?

Gloria

 

Brian, I did stick to the verse. You are the one is going outside the verse to say that something (recieved the word gladly) means something (got saved) other than what it says.

 

I decided to skip the eng. translations and look at the Greek text behind them, it turns out that the word translated as "who were being saved" isn't really a verb. It is a participle acting as an adjective. Now in greek, participles take their aspect (greek doesnot have true tenses) from the main verb which in this case is an imperfect (focus on connection and focus on actor). Imperfect aspects in greek do not show completed action. In this case the context of the Greek lends itself to a continuous translation of the imperfect. So, what you have is a continuous action that has not been completed.
What this all boils down to is you don't have an argument because the grammar of the text does not allow you to make your argument for (once saved=always saved). So it looks like I shall continue having to wait for somebody to prove with Biblical evidence the false doctrine of once saved=always saved.

 

I do not mean for this to come across mean-spirited but I think Briguy and Michael Wrenn ought to form the obnoxious duo, because your civility towards anyone disagreeing with either of you is anything but Christ-like.

You sign your posts "in Christ", etc., but your posts are anything but...

They come across as from one who is carnal and not kind.

Yes, Jesus came on strong at times but I'm not so sure I can trust myself to communicate the way He did because I come not from a position of perfect holiness as Jesus did but as a human being with many imperfections.

The way both of you respond to people on these posts you might think is righteous behaviour. It is not.
It is simply immature and caustic.

I trust you will re-think your behaviour before continuing another post. You do Our Lord no honour by sarcasm and condescending words towards others.

Thank-You.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tuor:
Lorelei,
If one paticualar interpretation is believed to be the Gospel truth, then it needs to be in harmony with the rest of scripture.

Might I suggest contrasting your interpretation of 1 John 5:13 and Romans 8:16 with Luke 8:5-15 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-2.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have already explained the seeds to you before so I won't repeat myself.

I agree with you that the interpretation must be in harmony with the rest of scripture, which is why I believe that you can know and that it is eternal. I have explained the seeds already, it isn't the seed, it is the ground that makes the difference.

In 1 Corinthians Paul is warning them to make sure thier faith is indeed true, not that they might lose it.

What one must do to be saved? Romans 10:9 "and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead".

Paul goes on to tell us that not everyone in Corinth believed this. "12
But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?"

He wasn't saying they could lose what they had or they had to "do" something to keep it, but rather that they examine what they believed to make sure it was real.

The verses must be in harmony throughout scripture, but it is only a few verses later that you can see in context what Paul was referring to.

~Lorelei

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pauline:
Lorelei,
Neither does that passage say that gladly receiving his word saved them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never said that it did. I simply stated that it came first.

By admitting that Neither of them are true you are admitting that your first statement was false.

So does this passage show us baptism saves or not?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pauline:

What saves people is God's life within them because He is life and holiness. And God gives that share in His life at baptism.

Pauline<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The passage certainly doesn't say this! This simply shows us by what bias you are interpreting the scripture.

~Lorelei

 

Briguy, there is a difference between what i did there and what I do on a normal basis. What I did there was systematic approach to refuting a heresy, which in this case is based on a faulty interpretation of a single verse of the Bible. If you think the kjv translators disagree with me on this point you better go back to grammar school, because they agree with me.

 

Brian, its simple you change the language "gladly received his word" to say "got saved." If the it mean't "got saved" it would say "got saved."

This is just strictly using your method of looking at the verse standing alone.

 

Godmetal,
Thank you for posting on the meaning in the Greek.

Brian,

I am astounded that anyone is offended by the fact that salvation is God's own life within the person's soul, making that person a new creature in Christ Jesus.

What do you think 2 Pt 1,4 is refering to in the statement "partakers of the divine nature"? And Gal 4,19 "Christ formed in you."
And other like verses about abiding in Christ and He abiding in us? Also, Gal 2,20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me." Do you not have Christ Jesus living in you, making you a new creature? Isn't that what the Christian life is, Christ living in us and us in Him?

Pauline